Minion Fist Fights

[Lacyon]

Rex's 4e fixes, addendum:

STALE CORN MUFFINS AND CATS DO NO DAMAGE

Not even when used as improvised weapons?

 

[Rex Blunder]

OK, Andor. The D&D game you are playing, where the warlord has figured out his hit point value via darts and can announce it to the world, doesn't match my "pretend the stuff offstage follows logical laws" game.

But your position is internally consistent, I think we each understand the opposing points of view, so I have nothing else to say about it. But I'd sit in on your D&D game, and I bet it would be fun.

 

[Mallus]

The minion rules assume that given creatures have totally avoided any form of potentially-disabling injury until they encounter the PCs...

You mean like house cat scratches? I hear they did in a lot of folks pre-3e...

 

[Brown Jenkin]

You mean like house cat scratches? I hear they did in a lot of folks pre-3e...

While cats shouldn't kill a person, from personal experience they sure can inflict damage.

 

[Rex Blunder]

I don't trust Brown Jenkin or pawsplay when it comes to the fighting prowess of cats. Cats always inflate their kill rate.

 

[Primal]

Stop thinking like a simulationist and this problem will go away.

Rules are not gameworld physics.

Yet some level of simulationism is needed, IMO, to achieve immersion in the story and the characters -- otherwise it's just a game of abstract stuff happening on a tactical board.

 

[Lizard]

Awesome... In this crazy situation that peasant managed to do that... WOOHOOO SUPER PEASANT!!! then the rest of the minions wipe the floor with the peasants... A crit is a crit. It's a lucky shot. I think the problem in that situation lies in removing the confirming roll. In either case... It doesn't make a difference to me, because:

1. None of my PCs are peasants...

2. The lucky peasant still won't live long... and if he does... he gets a cool adventure written around him... Or at least the vilagers think they actually have a local hero.

3. If I come to my game table and peaseants and epic minions have been fighting while I was not gaming... I have larger issues to deal with... like maybe jack chic was right...

It's not that crazy. Send 20 peasants out to deal with the thing; odds are, it will die. Send 40 and it's virtually certain; send 100 and the odds of it living are incredibly low.

I can live with almost any rules, no matter how whacked; what I can't live with is the idea the people living in the world don't understand the rules the world they live in works by and act accordingly. I'm having interesting thoughts about how streets are laid out in 4e cities given how movement on diagonals works...the only problem is, how do the city planners know where the grid lines are? It's probably a ritual. ("Detect graph paper")

In any event, I think it boils down to, "Is minion a physical condition which a creature natively possesses, or is it a metagame state imposed by the DM at the point of PC contact?" The fact that the MM lists monsters as "Minions", rather than having a "minion template", tells me it's the former, and that implies a lot about the world.

 

[Lizard]

While cats shouldn't kill a person, from personal experience they sure can inflict damage.

Ditto.

When morning comes and the cat food dish is empty, they can be quite...insistent. I've determined I must be at least 3rd or 4th level based on my cat survival skills alone.

 

[Primal]

It is?

Yep. Fact.

 

[Scribble]

It's not that crazy. Send 20 peasants out to deal with the thing; odds are, it will die. Send 40 and it's virtually certain; send 100 and the odds of it living are incredibly low.

It's crazy in the fact that why is this happening in your game?

Also, as said before, the minion isn't the BBEG... it's the grunt soldier. Sure your army of peasants takes down a minion... Awesome! Good for them! Now the other 3 (at least) minions tear the rest up... Oooooh they only lost half their guys before the other 3 were taken out? Great... Cheer on... until the Epic Skirmisher roles up and takes the other 50 out.

I can live with almost any rules, no matter how whacked; what I can't live with is the idea the people living in the world don't understand the rules the world they live in works by and act accordingly. I'm having interesting thoughts about how streets are laid out in 4e cities given how movement on diagonals works...the only problem is, how do the city planners know where the grid lines are? It's probably a ritual. ("Detect graph paper")

The actual laws of or own universe aren't all that well understood. Certain physics don't seem to appy when you get to a quantum level and they can't seem to reconcile the two... According to Quantum Physics there is a chance albeit very small that if I ran into a wall, I would be able to run right through it. Does this mean I should run into walls instead of using the door?

In any event, I think it boils down to, "Is minion a physical condition which a creature natively possesses, or is it a metagame state imposed by the DM at the point of PC contact?" The fact that the MM lists monsters as "Minions", rather than having a "minion template", tells me it's the former, and that implies a lot about the world.

So what's a wizard vrs a fighter? Same thing as a minion vrs a skirmisher. Sure it's metagame.. all the RULES are metagame. If they aren't you're playing some kind of campaign modeled after Order of The Stick. (Not that that wouldn't be awesome in a box.)

Why are some people fighters and others commoners?


Would it be easier to except if the Minion had 10 hp and your fighter did an average of 10 hp per attack, and hit well over 50% of the time?

You'd still be tracking dead or not dead... just with a lot more useless paperwork. (Kind of like my job.)