Minion House Rules

[keterys]

Yep, I actually suggest either that -or- giving a save, but the save adds more rolls that can nullify player actions (like 3e concealment) so I figured my way would be more popular with them.

I do have the save method for use with certain zombie minions, though

 

[77IM]

Well, I've been using this house rule just fine:

Remove the existing minion rule, change to 'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

Why: Because it feels unfair and unrealistic to players for their half damage or damage on miss abilities to never work on minions, while it feels cheap or too easy for automatic damage effects to kill them. Plus it allows minions to live in the "bloodied" design space with everyone else.

That is pretty dang brilliant.

-- 77IM

 

[ImperialParadox]

I gave these rules a try, and they worked quite well at upper heroic tiers of play. (Level 6-13 minions). It worked well for allied minions as well - and depicting the chaos of a fight with more than one faction. The PCs would spend abilities to heal the bloodied minions on their side, so they could fight off the other enemies that threatened them. I suspect it may not work as well for Level 1-5 minions, as they'd probably all be one-hit kills considering level 1-5 PC damage expressions.

I tried to use Con in my threshold formula originally, but it resulted in thresholds so low as to be irrelevant at low levels.

 

[ImperialParadox]

Well, I've been using this house rule just fine:

Remove the existing minion rule, change to 'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

Why: Because it feels unfair and unrealistic to players for their half damage or damage on miss abilities to never work on minions, while it feels cheap or too easy for automatic damage effects to kill them. Plus it allows minions to live in the "bloodied" design space with everyone else.

I like this version, very simple. The only problem I have with it is how does it handle attacks like Cleave? Personally I have no problem with things like Cleave downing multiple minions, but in every houserule for minions that I work on, either Cleave becomes less useful or requires a houserule itself - which starts to complicate things.

 

[Elric]

Well, I've been using this house rule just fine:

Remove the existing minion rule, change to 'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

Why: Because it feels unfair and unrealistic to players for their half damage or damage on miss abilities to never work on minions, while it feels cheap or too easy for automatic damage effects to kill them. Plus it allows minions to live in the "bloodied" design space with everyone else.

Having bloodied minions does mean more to keep track of, though. That's why I suggested requiring a roll of 10 by the players to kill a minion with auto-damage. It keeps all of the rolling done by the players and doesn't require tracking bloodied status for minions. This is somewhat more favorable to the players than bloodied-dead on auto-damage, though.

You could extend my suggestion below to a save to avoid death from all damage that didn't require a to-hit roll, including "miss damage." However, this leaves certain miss damage abilities, e.g., Scimitar Dance extremely good, perhaps too good, at killing minions. My level 1 at-will exception (this is the typical 'Cleave-type exception'), would then mean that Reaping Strike becomes an auto-kill, removing much of Cleave's thunder at minion-killing.

Here's my suggestion for how to modify minions. I don't think any part of this is particularly unique, though I haven't seen this exact proposal out there. It's quite simple, since it only addresses "auto-damage", and also keeps all of the rolling done by the players.

When PC’s deal “auto-damage” (damage that does not require an attack roll) against a minion, the player has to make a d20 roll, and get a result of 10 or higher, to reduce the minion to 0 HP.

There is one exception to this rule: 1) the rule does not apply to any damage PC’s deal using a 1st level at-wills (e.g. cleave, cloud of daggers, greenflame blade);

Potential second exception: 2) once per round, a player may choose one minion that takes auto-damage from that PC and declare that that his or her d20 roll automatically succeeds, before making the roll.

 

[77IM]

[Deleted]

 

[Firebeetle]

I really like the OP's system. I'm a big fan of minions as is. I use them constantly, mixing them with regular troops. The players never know when something is a minion or not. I have also started switching creatures into minions mid-battle to avoid grindage. If a critter is bloodied, I make it a minion after the 5th round or so.

This lessens XP, but that means more encounters to throw at my players later to pursue individual storylines (right now the three dragonborn brothers are tracking their heritage (woe betide them when they discover it is their ancestor who was the infamous "Betrayer"), the tiefling Raven Queen paladin is hunting the ancient and evil Reincarnators, the eladrin wizard is establishing his ancestral home, and the rogue is searching for the bandits that rival his guild (nor realizing it is his guild that is seriously evil yet.)) (that was a lot for paranthesis, wasn't it?)

However, I do like this system. I would make it Toughness = minion level + Con for simplicity. No need to add 5 to that. I might make "Tough Minions" worth more XP (4:1 ratio instead of 5:1?) to represent this change. Should really throw the players and still keeps things really simple.