Minions are:

[thewok]

plus I would have loved to see the look on a wizards face when his maximised fireball went bang and half the minons look at him as if to say

"Is that the best you have"

That's not how I plan to do it. This is how I'd describe that situation.

"The fireball explodes in a rush of flame. Some of the orcs (or whatever) fall instantly (hit on minion, dead normal monster, so on). Some of the orcs' skin itself is aflame (hit on normal monster, not dead). Some, however, were able to shield themselves with cloaks or other orcs and roar at you fiercely as they pat out the flames (miss on minion/normal monster).

I don't plan on announcing minion status. I want my players guessing. I want them to think, "How many minions are in this fight? Are there even any minions in this fight? Dear God, why does he do this to us? Should I attack that orc, or that one? What if this one over here is the minion, and I just piss off the leader?" If their heads explode, I have done my job.

 

[hong]

Buh?

"Please state your opinion."

"This is my opinion."

"YOUR OPINION IS WRONG."

Seriously?

Did anyone say anything about opinions being wrong?

 

[Cirex]

Did anyone say anything about opinions being wrong?

Hong is right. How are minions "fillers"? You are not supposed to fight just against minions, but against enemy leaders with minions and any other class type (skirmisher, brute, etc.). They are tactically awesome for those enemies, since minions will be soaking attacks and causing havok by themselves.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Did anyone say anything about opinions being wrong?

It is possible I misread it. It is becoming distressingly easy for me to see people attempting to knock me down on these forums simply for disagreeing. Even worse, it's becoming easy because of how often it happens, almost irregardless of the opinion.

You'd think nerds and geeks of all people wouldn't attack one another, but I suppose the neck bristling RAGE at just about everything in the world moves us without our realizing it

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Hong is right. How are minions "fillers"? You are not supposed to fight just against minions, but against enemy leaders with minions and any other class type (skirmisher, brute, etc.). They are tactically awesome for those enemies, since minions will be soaking attacks and causing havok by themselves.

Hey, all I did was state my opinion on how I saw minions. I see them as the hit-them-once, they-go-down enemies.

Truth be told, I've never liked the battles of "When suddenly the orc warchief summons a whole bunch of warriors that you somehow failed to notice earlier!" I've always leaned more towards smaller groups of more powerful enemies that take more to knock to the ground.

 

[Cirex]

Maybe I misunderstood the use of "filler". They are, indeed, mobs that go down with one hit.

I like the concept of groups containing a few, but very specialized, enemies, but removing one of them and adding some minions opens a new array of tactical possibilities. Maybe it doesn't fit demons, but orc, goblin or kobold armies and so on got lots of untrained or very weak members and minions represent that.

I know I'll be using them, but not abusing.

 

[ZetaStriker]

Truth be told, I've never liked the battles of "When suddenly the orc warchief summons a whole bunch of warriors that you somehow failed to notice earlier!" I've always leaned more towards smaller groups of more powerful enemies that take more to knock to the ground.

I'm not here to say "YOU'RE WRONG!" or anything, but I do want to offer a few other options for minions before you write them off entirely. For one thing, an encounter against a tough leader who gets significantly stronger by being surrounded by allies, allies who are in this case minions, makes for a pretty good fight. The PCs can either try to quickly subdue the big bad, or weaken him first by targeting his minion allies. It adds an extra dimension to that big bad's abilities that wouldn't have been there in a smaller battle.

Another good situation is if you wanted to do a large scale battle. I don't mean minion swarms, I mean assign one elite as a lieutenant, and give him an obscene number of minions. Maybe the PCs will have NPCs aiding them, but the PC's job is to break through the enemy lines and kill the commanding officer, forcing the larger enemy force into a retreat. This scenario could make for a fun race against time situation; minions can still do serious damage, so killing all of them might not be an option. There's just a lot of interesting ways this situation can play out.

Or if you use minions as friendly NPCs, perhaps a battle could play out with the PC's trying desperately to keep the small, powerful enemy group at bay so that they can't get within reach of these significantly weaker civilians. This would be fun in the sense that it could force players to take up roles they might not otherwise place themselves in. The rogue holding the line with the Defender, the Warlock darting back and forth across the battlefield without the aid of his Eyebite attack in order to draw more enemies to him.

Anyway, just a few thoughts off the top of my head I thought I should spout out. Take it for what you will.

 

[TheWyrd]

I've been using minions for a LONG time.. in Mutants and Masterminds. My only reservation for 4E about using them is how they will interact with XP. Afterall, in M&M you get one PP for the whole adventure, not per villain you take down. We'll see.

 

[Steely Dan]

Been using them for years, now they're just "official".

 

[La Bete]

Could have used (a 3.5 version of) them last week during my 3.5 game I run!