orion90000
First Post
A minotaur's "natural cunning" says they are never caught flat footed. If an invisible rogue attempted to engage in melee, would he be able to deal sneak attack damage?
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D&D 3E/3.5 minotaur v invisible attacker 3.5
- Thread starter orion90000
- Start date
frankthedm
First Post
Being attacked by an invisible creature is similar, but technically different than being caught flat footed. Yet one more situation in this ruleset where A+B=C but C-B≠A. Of course if that minotaur was at least a 2nd level Barbarian, then Invisibility would not help anyhow.
Invisibility
Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). (Invisibility has no effect against blinded or otherwise nonsighted creatures.) An invisible creature's location cannot be pinpointed by visual means, including darkvision. It has total concealment; even if an attacker correctly guesses the invisible creature's location, the attacker has a 50% miss chance in combat.
Concealment
...You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.
Flat-Footed
A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.
Natural Cunning (Ex)
Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
Invisibility
Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). (Invisibility has no effect against blinded or otherwise nonsighted creatures.) An invisible creature's location cannot be pinpointed by visual means, including darkvision. It has total concealment; even if an attacker correctly guesses the invisible creature's location, the attacker has a 50% miss chance in combat.
Concealment
...You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.
Flat-Footed
A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.
Natural Cunning (Ex)
Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
orion90000
First Post
Thanks frank. After posting this i reread the sneak attack description and came to the same conclusion.
I have a pc playing a minotaur who thinks he's awesome. So I'm going to duel him with a pixie rogue to humble him.
I have a pc playing a minotaur who thinks he's awesome. So I'm going to duel him with a pixie rogue to humble him.
orion90000
First Post
last question.
I've given the pixie flyby attack. when mixed with improved invisibility and high move silently, I assume the minotaur isn't going to stand much of a chance. Unless....
The only way through combat skills is Ready attack, but you supposedly use the readied action prior to the trigger. But since the minotaur isn't going to know (presumably failing his listen check) which square he's being attacked from until he gets hit, does this negate the ready action or will it go in effect after he is attacked?
I've given the pixie flyby attack. when mixed with improved invisibility and high move silently, I assume the minotaur isn't going to stand much of a chance. Unless....
The only way through combat skills is Ready attack, but you supposedly use the readied action prior to the trigger. But since the minotaur isn't going to know (presumably failing his listen check) which square he's being attacked from until he gets hit, does this negate the ready action or will it go in effect after he is attacked?
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
From the SRD:
And the ready action info found at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm:
It's an odd circumstance in this because the minotaur doesn't know if he'll be getting attacked until he does, thus he technically couldn't complete the ready action before being attacked because he has no knowledge of it. This seems to be a rules quirk since it's pretty obvious a creature readying an action to try to hit an invisible attacker should work after being attacked and pinpointing the attacker's location.
And the ready action info found at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm:
It's an odd circumstance in this because the minotaur doesn't know if he'll be getting attacked until he does, thus he technically couldn't complete the ready action before being attacked because he has no knowledge of it. This seems to be a rules quirk since it's pretty obvious a creature readying an action to try to hit an invisible attacker should work after being attacked and pinpointing the attacker's location.
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orion90000
First Post
That's how I've always worked with phase spiders, etheral filchers, and etheral mauraders. You have to wait until you've been attacked in order to respond.
Minotaur gets surprised - no action in surprise round. Pixie makes surprise round attack - can't make a full attack - so a single attack with benefits of sneak attack since opponent is denied dex bonus because opponent is invisible. Invisible pixie also gets a +2 on his attack because he is invisible. The only thing is that he must charge in order to make his attack - since he must move into the square and attack (unless he has a reach weapon allowing him to attack from adjacent squares). He can do a charge in a surprise round since his actions are limited, but can only move half the normal charge move.
First combat round - roll for initiative.
On Minotaur's turn he can ready if he chooses.
But per the rules once thepixie attacks him he can pin point the pixie - since the pixie must attack from within the same square (tiny creature). The pixie still benefits from total concealment though.
So if the pixie does a fly by and moves out of the threatened square - an AoO. The Minotaur threatens his own square (assuming no reach weapon) and then the adjacent square and the next squares due to his size (large creatures threaten to 10 ft).
Can't make an AoO when flat footed (oops Minotaur is never flat-footed) - so can make an AoO (even in a surprise round). But you can't make an AoO against a target with total concealment, whoa pixie was saved.
First combat round - roll for initiative.
On Minotaur's turn he can ready if he chooses.
But per the rules once thepixie attacks him he can pin point the pixie - since the pixie must attack from within the same square (tiny creature). The pixie still benefits from total concealment though.
So if the pixie does a fly by and moves out of the threatened square - an AoO. The Minotaur threatens his own square (assuming no reach weapon) and then the adjacent square and the next squares due to his size (large creatures threaten to 10 ft).
Can't make an AoO when flat footed (oops Minotaur is never flat-footed) - so can make an AoO (even in a surprise round). But you can't make an AoO against a target with total concealment, whoa pixie was saved.
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orion90000
First Post
Pixie is a small creature, therefore doesn't have to enter the opponent's square to attack
