Mirror Image and Dispelling

[Malcer]

"Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment."

-Hyp.

It appears to be kind of overpowered for the Mirror Image spell, especially since Displacement, a 3rd level spell, has a sentence that clarifies that unlike with total concealment, targetted spells do not suffer a miss chance.

Mirror Image and Displacement do not exactly compare if you consider their specific effects; though both surely serve a very similar purpose.
But if we compare similar spells of those lower levels like Blur, Invisibility, Displacement, and Blink, we always have a very simillar mechanism that roughly follows the rules for concealment. Mirror Image stands out among those spells making it an odd case indeed.

In one of our games, I used the True Strike in combination with a Disintegration spells to great effect because the 3.5 version of True Strike has the nice addition of ignoring miss chances due to concealment. Again, this feature is not really compatible with Mirror Image, because it is nowhere said that there is any kind of concealment involved.

Though the rules do not support that True Strike can overcome Mirror Image, they should.

1. I just wonder if any of you actually used and exploited the fact that you apparently can dispel specific spell effects in your campaigns.
Failing the save against a Dominate Person spell always meant that the party member in question was in for a very thorough debuffing of all his defensive spells because targetting him with a dispel magic meant that those spells went as well.
It seems that dispel magic can be wielded like a knife. You could aim to strip an enemy spell caster of crucial defense spells like Stoneskin or even Resist Energy. Even Spell Turning can be removed without the chance that the dispelling spell bounces back. Do you use that in your campaigns?

A friend of mine is convinced that you cannot target any spells if the description does not say so. (Examples for that are Globe and Minor Globe of Invulnerability, the Bigby spells, and Mordenkainen's Sword). I do not nescessarily agree, but interpretation of rules are decided by consensus at our table. My friend argues that the only way to get rid of area spells like Fire Wall or Blade Barrier is to use an Area Dispel.

2. On the question whether Mirror Image can be dispelled by a targetted dispel or an area dispel, I think that the description is ambiguous. It is said under Range that the spell is personal, which suggest that you need to target in order to dispel. Well actually it says under Range: Personal, see text, and the description seems to suggest to me that images that the spell generates are seperate from the caster, which leds me to believe that they should be considered an area effect. I think there are only three options:

1. Mirror Image is a Personal spell
2. Mirror Image is an Area effect
3. Mirror Image is a Personal spell and an Area effect

I'd like to add that I overlooked that Mirror Image says Target: You as well, which could easilier refute my whole argument, but I stand by my interpretation if only the description is taken into account.

How do you deal with this in your campaigns if at all

Thank you for your thoghts!

-Malcer

 

[Hypersmurf]

Mirror Image stands out among those spells making it an odd case indeed.

Mirror Image is a very odd case, as demonstrated by the fact that there are the rules in the PHB, rules in the FAQ (3E and 3.5) that don't match the rules in the PHB, and suggestions in the FAQ that admit they don't follow the rules in the PHB but are more practical (or something along those lines).

According to the 3E FAQ, any targeted spell can destroy a figment. This means that a figment can be targeted individually, and that's why targeted Dispel Magic affects one image or the caster, randomly determined - you're not targeting "the caster", you're targeting... um, that one, which may or may not be the caster.

This is different to a Displaced caster, where you're not trying to select from multiple possibilities.

It also means that Message makes an absolutely fantastic anti-Mirror-Image spell.

However, this doesn't gel with a/ the PHB rules for targeting, in many cases, and b/ the PHB description of Mirror Image. Magic Missile, for example, targets "one or more creatures". A figment is not a creature, and therefore it should be an invalid target for a Magic Missile spell (which is how I run it). If you cast a Magic Missile at a figment, then under the rules for targetting, the spell has no effect.

I also absolutely disagree with the 3.5 FAQ contention that a figment is valid for use with feats such as Cleave or Whirlwind Attack, but that's starting to get off-topic...

-Hyp.

 

[Malcer]

I agree, only spell with that need a hit roll can be the subject of miss chance by Mirror images. That is how we have always used images and targeted spells.

And i would target dispel the said mage with the images since it would give me a shot at all his spell and not just only the mirror image if i targeted that spell only.

Well, unfortunately we always played that targetted spells can be mislead by Mirror Image. Like Hyp said, the description says that if enemies that cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Considering game balance, an argument could be made that only Ranged Touch or Touch spells are subject to this, which, unfortunately, is not supported by the description.

Well, if you have labored through my post above, I think this interpretation supports my theory that Mirror Image is effectively an area effect and should be banished like one. You cannot successfully target the caster of Mirror Image if you choose one of the images because they are not connected to the caster whatsoever.

Well, I guess that trying to apply logic to magic is sometimes pretty redundant; it is magic after all

But let us hear your thoughts on the matter.

-Malcer

 

[two]

safe

What all this means to me, and my character, is that Mirror Image is, and has been, the pre-eminant 2nd level defensive spell, bar none.

Cast it at the start of a battle, and you are safe for a round or two (usually far longer) vs. anything except area effect damage. Until True Sight comes along, but hey -- even that's rare until very high levels.

Because it's a 2nd level spell, anytime it gets dispelled by a DM or GDM just cast it again. You will win the war of spell slots, after all.

An overlooked defense vs. "save or be screwed" spells.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think it's clear that, other than great cleave or magic missiles, there are three ways that dispel magic could interact with mirror image:
...
...
3. Area dispel. Gets one shot at every target in the area. So, if the spell failed to dispel any higher level spells on the wizard, it would get a shot at the mirror image. If it stripped a higher level spell from the wizard, however, it would stop before reaching the mirror image.

Actually I'd think that the spell is an ongoing effect in an area (after all, the images are seperated from their caster).

Thus every area dispel will hit the mirror image in addition to the highest level spell on the caster...

Although this is against the rules, since bizarrely mirror image is not an 'effect' spell, but a 'target' spell.

Although I suppose if it was an 'effect' spell, multiple castings would be possible on a single target...

 

[Liquidsabre]

The Spellcraft skill allows the identification of spells already in place as long as you are able to "see or detect the effects of the spell". Detect Magic should be sufficient for identifying the otherwise invisible effects of a spell. As long as you can detect it, it can be targeted by a dispel.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Spellcraft skill allows the identification of spells already in place as long as you are able to "see or detect the effects of the spell". Detect Magic should be sufficient for identifying the otherwise invisible effects of a spell. As long as you can detect it, it can be targeted by a dispel.

Not the case. You must be able to "see or touch" the target of a spell. You must be able to "see or detect the effects" of a spell to use Spellcraft.

If you can detect the effects, but not see or touch, then you can use Spellcraft, but you cannot target.

-Hyp.

 

[Liquidsabre]

At least with Spellcraft you can tell the difference between multiple abjuration spell auras I guess.

 

[Ovinomancer]

"Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment."

-Hyp.

Your kung fu is better than mine.

This does, however, turn this spell into a juggernaut. You must expend valued resources much greater than mirror image, with a distict margin of failure, in order to remove the effect. And, if you have allies in the area of the dispel, you risk affecting them also. Or you could just target the effect, surgical like, but that is more akin to using a bazooka on a gnat, resource wise. You may hit, but there is probably another gnat lurking around. Since the spell is unlike all similar spells in its range (1-3), it looks like house rule fodder to me.

 

[Liquidsabre]

What all this means to me, and my character, is that Mirror Image is, and has been, the pre-eminant 2nd level defensive spell, bar none.

Sure, it's good. But there are other 2nd level spells that are good too. If you're fighting ground-pounders Levitation means you can't even be hit (barring ranged weapons naturally), Scorching Ray is pretty darn good, Melf's Acid Arrow and it's penetration of SR is pretty good, Rope Trick is an almost must have 2nd lvl spell, etc., the list goes on.

Cast it at the start of a battle, and you are safe for a round or two (usually far longer) vs. anything except area effect damage. Until True Sight comes along, but hey -- even that's rare until very high levels.

If every other spell cast is a Mirror Image to keep them up (and a party of four should be easily doing 4-6 attacks per round) that's alot of spells for defense (and rightly so). A caster typically doesn't have this many to burn unless they be a Sorc or a higher level Wizard. There are more useful spells the caster could likely be casting: such as levitate from melee folk and protection from arrows for ranged. Only two spells and nigh untouchable at only 3-5th level. More bang for your buck there, then they cast spells that are actually offensive in nature. :\

Because it's a 2nd level spell, anytime it gets dispelled by a DM or GDM just cast it again. You will win the war of spell slots, after all.

Yes but the look on the caster's face when his mirror image is dispeled with the barbarian nearby...

One of the reasons I like simple 1st level spells like FR-Scatterspray, toss a bag of marbles next to the cast the spell to spray marbles in a 10ft radius. Or better yet just take a bag of marbles and throw them in a wide swath, think the bag of flour to find the invisible guy.