Mirror Image Sage Advice

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

Well only sort-of. You can only do that with attacks--targetted spells are right out.

And some people might say that that's actually a superior effect. If the attacker always closes his eyes, Mirror Image is turning into Displacement with a longer duration. And last I checked, displacement is a higher level spell.

Ordinarily, a character under the effect of mirror image will get five or six images at clvl 9 and less before then. If the foe has three attacks, that amounts to 1/6, 1/5, and 1/4 chance to hit the character. By the sixth or seventh attack, the displacement effect is better. That's somewhat misleading though. If the character's AC is good, it's quite likely that quite a few of the first attacks would miss the PC but hit the figments.

And if cleave works on figments. a foe with great cleave makes the mirror image spell almost irrelevant. The displacement effect when the foe closes his eyes to attack, however, would still work just fine.

And, while the sardine can mirror image may not be a good thing, I think it's a heck of a lot better than letting a huge dragon with his 6 mirror images take up 1575 square feet on a battlemap.

But it doesn't matter how many figments you have, then... if all the figments are in the same square, Mirror Image always provides a 50% miss chance.

Since they're all in the same square, you just close your eyes...

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

Well only sort-of. You can only do that with attacks--targetted spells are right out.

Hence "It means he gets the full benefit against AoOs and targetted spells, but otherwise, it's just a 50/50 miss chance against everything" in the next message

And if cleave works on figments. a foe with great cleave makes the mirror image spell almost irrelevant.

Yeah, well, that's the other thing. They're not real, they can't attack... how do they count as opponents? Bah, I say.

And, while the sardine can mirror image may not be a good thing, I think it's a heck of a lot better than letting a huge dragon with his 6 mirror images take up 1575 square feet on a battlemap.

I'd rather have seven dragons take up seven 15-foot squares than cram them all into one...

Really, if you try and visualise it... how is it different from Blur? You get one dragon with a fuzzy outline...

How do you move "into and through" a figment when you're all packed into one tiny space?

Not in my game

-Hyp.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

There are points on both sides of the argument but I don't even want to think about the ways that all those images could be used to control the battlefield. With even half that many, you'll either leave PCs with no room to manuever or you'll need ridiculously massive arenas for the PCs to battle in.

I'd rather have seven dragons take up seven 15-foot squares than cram them all into one...

Really, if you try and visualise it... how is it different from Blur? You get one dragon with a fuzzy outline...

How do you move "into and through" a figment when you're all packed into one tiny space?

Not in my game

-Hyp.

 

[Mahali]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

Since they're all in the same square, you just close your eyes...

-Hyp.

Only if you allow someone to close then open their eyes on the same turn. A clear violation of the turn based system designed to represent the constant time line.

 

[rhammer2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

I agree. If you have your eyes closed to attack, you are treated as blind when you are attacked.

Only if you allow someone to close then open their eyes on the same turn. A clear violation of the turn based system designed to represent the constant time line.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

Only if you allow someone to close then open their eyes on the same turn. A clear violation of the turn based system designed to represent the constant time line.

How is it different to someone using a Glove of Storing to retrieve an item as a free action, use it, and dismiss it as a free action?

Quickdraw to draw a weapon as a free action, swing it, and drop it as a free action?

Instant Stand to stand up from prone behind full cover as a free action, full attack with a bow, drop prone behind cover as a free action?

The turn-based system doesn't represent a constant timeline (whether or not it's supposed to). The conditions from before character A's turn are potentially completely different to the conditions after character A's turn, and character B can only act under the conditions that apply during character B's action.

Trying to model simultaneous action leads to far, far messier problems.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mirror Image Sage Advice

I agree. If you have your eyes closed to attack, you are treated as blind when you are attacked.

So if I'm fifteen feet away from the orc, and I use Spring Attack to close, attack, and move back to where I started, then on his turn, I'm treated as being beside him still while he makes his full attack?

After all, I was beside him when I attacked, and to assume otherwise when he takes his action is a clear violation of the turn based system designed to represent the constant time line...

-Hyp.

 

[Anubus]

You can only make 1 free action in a round, as a free action, any more free actions you take count as standard actions. Or did this change in 3.5?

 

[Anabstercorian]

This is just as well. Otherwise, this spell is probably more powerful than even Displacement. 89% miss chance or 50%...?

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

You can only make 1 free action in a round, as a free action, any more free actions you take count as standard actions. Or did this change in 3.5?

I never saw that rule in 3.0

The limit on how many free actions you could take in a round was up to the DM, wasn't it?

TS