Mirror Image vs. Finger of Death

[the Jester]

Also, Displacement can be cast on others as well as yourself, making it a bit more versatile than Mirror Image.

Aside from that, I don't see how comparing spells of differing effects and differing levels is going to prove.....well....what ARE we trying to prove? That Mirror Image is broken? And if it's broken, is it just broken against Finger of Death? Or is it only broken when compared to both Finger of Death and Displacement? What if I have Blink cast on me as well? Do the images and displacement blink as well? What if they're invisible? Do the displaced blinking images become invisible as well? Well.....it shouldn't matter. Cause after all Finger of Death, being a 6th level spell, should rightfully stop the invisible, blinkin, displacin, mirror imagin mage dead in his tracks.......right?

Right?

....I'm confused now......

Edit: BTW, I would say no, Finger of Death wouldn't work because the sum total of the level of spells cast on the character (Blink: 3rd, Displacement: 3rd, Invisibility: 2nd, and Mirror Image: 2nd) add up to more total spell levels than Finger of Death: 6th.

........cause that's really how we determine if something's balanced.

That was beautiful.

 

[android]

I think we're all forgetting the best spell for defeating Mirror Image: Magic Missile. Send a different missile to each image and the things are destroyed. doesn't even matter if they have a brooch of shielding because the images are still destroyed.

 

[AuraSeer]

The downside to MM is that it's capped at 5 missiles, and there can be up to 8 images (plus the real target). If you're in a hurry, a single Chain Lightning will take them all out, and do respectable damage as well.

 

[Taloras]

Mirror Image is one reason our mage always has a magic missile memorized. There is also one in my rogue's ring of spell storing. If we come up against a lot of mirror images, with the 2 of us, we will get rid of all of them at once.

Also, our fighter found out something. Since mirror image is only an illusion, he can shut his eyes (he has Blindfight) and he gets a 50% miss chance, gets to roll it twice. If he opens his eyes, he has a 1 in X chance to hit (X is how many images there are). This comes in very handy.

 

[Numion]

Mirror images are very easy to get rid of. It was kinda funny watching them attack, cheer when they hit a fake image, and curse when they inadvertantly hit the demon itself.

But if they hit the demon they'd know which was the real demon, eh? Why didn't they just then use the spell on it? The demon can "shuffle the deck", but just on his own turn.

 

[Numion]

Ah, cool.

Numion is going to try to repeatedly illustrate that Mirror Image is more potent than higher level spells and we get to attempt to prove him wrong each time.

That's what the boards are for.. BTW, have you DMed high-level D&D game? Your math is sound, but it's not that easy to come to correct conclusions on how it will affect high-level play without extensive playtesting.

Conclusion: Mirror Image typically has a shorter duration. It typically only protects for the first two to four rounds that the caster is attacked. It is visible and hence draws attacks like flies (at least in my game). It is easier to get rid of. It's protective quality decreases over time.

2-4 rounds? In my experience high-level combats don't usually last longer than 2-4 rounds. Pretty good if Mirrors Images protect you for that long. The duration is better because it means that the images can be cast in advance, before actuall combat. And it isn't that hard for a high level caster to renew the images.

If it "draws attacks like flies" in your game, it's already done it's job, hasn't it? Many attacks have been wasted on images instead of the real thing. In my game intelligent opponents usually leave the imaged caster last (if they can't easily dispel the images), because they have a bigger chance to damage and bring down an un-mirror imaged character. (Less combatants means easier battle for them.)

On the opposite side of the coin, it protects against targeted spell attacks, but they too lower it's overall duration. It also protects to a greater degree for a short period of time.

Well yes.. it's just that the higher level protective spells have a lesser chance of protecting you, and that combined with easy renewal of mirror image at higher levels creates for a rather uninspired defenses for the casters (and pointless dice-rolling). That's just from my games, though. IMHO, YMMV etc. It's all good.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Page 47 of FAQ:

"Area spells don't destroy the figments created by the mirror image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is "targeted" look at the information that proceeds each spell description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is targeted."

Finger of Death:
Target: One living creature

Magic Missile:
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart

Shocking Grasp:
Target: Creature or object touched

Well, if thats the way they intend the rules to be, I retract my original assertion (even though it still makes more sense to me! It is not something that I feel strongly enough about to make an official houserule about though).

Thanks for the clarification

Cheers

 

[hong]

But if they hit the demon they'd know which was the real demon, eh? Why didn't they just then use the spell on it? The demon can "shuffle the deck", but just on his own turn.

That's not clear. The spell description doesn't make any mention of requiring an action to do this (not even a free action). All it says is "while moving, you can merge with and split off from figments...". I read this to mean that it's going on all the time, and only stops if the caster is actually paralysed or rendered immobile.

 

[Numion]

That's not clear. The spell description doesn't make any mention of requiring an action to do this (not even a free action). All it says is "while moving, you can merge with and split off from figments...". I read this to mean that it's going on all the time, and only stops if the caster is actually paralysed or rendered immobile.

It does say "while moving". Moving is not a free action --> It must be done on one's own round.

On the other hand I suppose that the combatants presumed to be moving a little constantly, so they can shift the images even between arrows in the same volley, but why did they put the "while moving" part in there then? They could've just said that there is no way to distinguish between the targets short of True Seeing.

 

[hong]

It does say "while moving". Moving is not a free action --> It must be done on one's own round.

Actually, even if it was a free action it would still have to be done on your own turn. Free action != not-an-action. This is why you can only cast a quickened spell on your turn, for example.

There are two possible ways to interpret "moving". First, there's the interpretation that it means tactical movement on the combat map, as in moving from one square to another. Second, there's the everyday-use meaning of just "movement" -- what you do if you're not completely paralyzed. Note that combatants in D&D are assumed to be moving all the time, if only to dodge blows. They just can't make tactical movements until it's their turn.

The interpretation that the mirror image description refers to tactical movement would imply that someone who wasn't making any such movement would not be able to shift the images around. Thus a wizard who stands still, without making at least a 5-foot step each round, would not be able to shift the images. I don't think this makes sense, or is what the designers intended. The images are quasi-independent and are moving around constantly. Thus the best interpretation is that the spell refers to the everyday use of "movement".

On the other hand I suppose that the combatants presumed to be moving a little constantly, so they can shift the images even between arrows in the same volley, but why did they put the "while moving" part in there then? They could've just said that there is no way to distinguish between the targets short of True Seeing.

Because you can't do it while you're not moving, ie if you're held, paralyzed or otherwise rendered helpless.