Misses: Order of Operations

[the Jester]

Is there, anywhere, an explicit 'order of operations' for checking to see why a blow misses? In other words, do I check dodge bonuses first, then deflection, then armor, then natural armor? Or does deflection come before dodge?

I don't think I've seen it laid out anywhere, but it could be important for a magical shield I am thinking about making for my game.

Thanks!

 

[frankthedm]

It is a failure of the system more things do not work off this. no official order of operations.

I'd say the more reactive bonuses matter first, I'd do them...

1st Insight: You knew where not to be.
2nd Luck: You just happened to be out of the path of the blow
3rd Sacred / Profane: outside[r] interference makes it look like you were lucky.
4th Dodge & Dex: You got out of the way on your own merit, more or less.
5th Deflection: Deflector shields are up even if you are down.
6th Shield: You block the blow and your armor is never tested, granted the 3e rules make the shield seem 'stapled' onto you.
7th Armor: If the blow gets past this you are in trouble...
8th Natural Armor: Saved by the thick skin.

 

[GorTeX]

It doesn't usually matter...just add all the AC bonuses up for a total AC..if you roll less than that then you miss.

 

[Goolpsy]

why should this be a "failure of the system" ? This allows maximus DM flavor... instead of sayign all the time: "you are lucky"... he has several ways of explaining it, enhancing his monster describtion making more out of the combat sequence....

 

[the Jester]

Well, the relevence is in regards to a shield quality I'm working on that damages weapons that hit the shield.

My current version of the order of operations for a miss is similar to Frank's- mine is like this:

ORDER OF OPERATIONS (Adjudicating Hits & Misses):

Did that miss bounce off your armor? Did it deflect away because of your magical ring of protection? Or did your Dodge feat give it the key push you needed? When it is necessary to tell exactly why an attack missed (was it caught by a shield of weaponbreaking?), assume the following “order of operations” applies (each step essentially coming closer to actually landing the blow on the target):

Cover takes a blow first.
Insight is next; the target isn’t even there.
Luck is next; the blow suffers the vagaries of fortune.
Deflection is next; the attack sheers away from the target.
Dodge is next; the character dodges out of the way at the last second.
Dexterity (or other ability modifiers that apply, such as wisdom for a monk) is next; the target ducks or twists away from the blow.
Size is next; the blow would connect, if only the target was 6” taller!
Sacred is next; the blow fails due to divine providence.
Nameless bonuses from Combat Expertise, fighting defensively, etc. are next; sheer skill turns the blow aside.
Shield is next; the blow is caught on the shield.
Armor is next; the blow lands, but armor deflects it.
Natural Armor is last; the blow doesn’t cut deep enough to do significant damage.

Example: Jojo Flapjacks, a halfling (+1 size bonus to AC), wears a chain shirt (+4 armor bonus), has a buckler (+1 shield bonus), wears a ring of protection +3 and has a dex bonus of +4 (for a total AC of 23). An enemy’s modified attack roll results in the following:

23+: hit.
22-19: miss (caught on armor).
18: miss (caught on buckler).
17: miss due to size.
16-13: miss due to dex.
12-10: miss due to deflection.
9 or lower: clean miss.

 

[starwed]

The assumption here is that an AC is composed only of bonuses. But there are plenty of penalties available too... size or dexterity, for example, can produce either a penalty or bonus. There are all sorts of complications here, and not much benefit that I see.

For example, at high levels, it's not that hard to have a total bonus to armor which is greater than 20. Since for a given individual, each result is directly tied to what they roll on a d20 die, only certain types of AC bonuses will come into play. That seems odd to me, but maybe it's what you're going for?

the relevence is in regards to a shield quality I'm working on that damages weapons that hit the shield.

It'd be easier just to have a set chance for this property to come into play. Something like (shield bonus)/20.

 

[Snowy]

slightly unrelated - well very unrelated but an interesting thing occured when reading this.

The DM for the Iron Kingdoms game I play in describes misses to some extent based off this. Not for any mechanical reason but to make descriptions match up to characters more.

So if an attack would have hit touch AC but not total AC then he describes it as bouncing off armor or being deflected off a shield whereas if it misses touch AC then it whistles past your head or smashes into the wall and floor next to where you were standing.

Sorry for the side track, I hadn't really noticed what he was doing until I read this thread and it sparked something in my head. I don't do this so much in my game and I think I should it will make my descriptions a bit more tied to the mechanics behind them.

Cool.

Good luck with your magic item creation - to make my post not completly annoying and off topic, I'd suggest looking at the mechanic for the Kua Toa shields, if I remember they have a chance for things to stick to them, there must be a mechanic involved there that might be of use.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, the relevence is in regards to a shield quality I'm working on that damages weapons that hit the shield.

Have you considered looking at Kuo-Toa? They have a shield that weapons stick to; perhaps you could use the same mechanic as there.

note: I've not looked Kuo Toa up in years, and if their mechanic is whacked out (not unlikely ) then belay this suggestion!

Cheers

 

[reel_big_gish]

Quick'n'Dirty: If the attack roll is too low to hit your AC, but high enough to hit your AC without the shield's bonus, it hits the shield.

Longer, more complicated method: Divide the total shield bonus (including enhancement bonuses to the shield) by the total AC (including the shield bonus), rounding to 3 decimal places. Multiply the result by 1000. Roll 1d1000. If the result of the die roll is equal to or lower than the (shield bonus/total AC), the attack hits the shield.

For example, a Heavy Steel Shield +1 grants a total of +3 to AC. If the character's total AC is 22, we end up with 3/22, or 0.136. Multiplying by 1000 produces 136. If the result of the 1d1000 roll is equal to or lower than 136, the attack hits the shield.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I do not have my books on me, but I KNOW there is a chart in one of them that lists the order of equipment that can be damaged by spells/items. That could be the closes OFFICIAL source that you could add to.

DS


Edit: Found it...

Items Affected by Magical Attacks
Order Item
1st Shield
2nd Armor
3rd Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4th Item in hand (including weapon, wand, or the like)
5th Magic cloak
6th Stowed or sheathed weapon
7th Magic bracers
8th Magic clothing
9th Magic jewelry (including rings)
10th Anything else
1 In order of most likely to least likely to be affected.