Missing Spell Lists. What happened to Create Water?

[Lela]

I was going through, looking to design the spell Wet, Snapping, Towel when I discovered I couldn't find Create Water. I took a look around and couldn't find the following Create listings:

• Create Crystal
• Create Earth
• Create Ice
• Create Metal
• Create Water

So, am I missing something? Are these lists not in the book? If so, where can I find them? More importantly, what other lists are missing?

 

[Lela]

Well, as long as I mentioned it:

Wet, Snapping, Towel
Create Nature 0/Gen 0
Total MP: 0
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 Minute
Creates a wet, soapy, cotton towel. It can be any reasonable degree of wet (including dry). Useful for cleaning yourself off or, as the name implies, snapping fellow party members who annoy you.Costs: Create Nature 0 MP Note: Normally, I assume, you would need Create Water to add the water to the cotton. Due to balance issues—and the lack of a Create Water listing in the book—it seems unnecessary in this case.


Really, it's under development, as evidenced by the note.

 

[Verequus]

You are misreading the enhancements listing. Just because one of the mentioned spell lists isn't mentioned there, it doesn't mean, that it doesn't exist - it means, that there is no other special effect, which you can get with these spell lists. 2 proofs:1. Only the Move list has a line, which restricts the elements to certain kinds. 2. The following quote mentions Create Metal and Create Water:

If you use magical material components, created objects cannot be used as components. Likewise, if you make nails (Create Metal) and use them to hold up a painting, the nails will vanish when the spell ends, and the painting will fall. Created dirt and mud that soils clothing will leave the clothes clean when the spell ends. If you create water and boil pasta in it, when the spell ends the water will disappear from the pasta and leave it dry. However, if you add Create Life to another Create spell, the created object will endure if it is eaten or somehow combined with another creature. If you add Create Death, the created object will endure if you combine it with another non-living object.

 

[Lela]

So, when I cast Create Water, it can fill up to the area of effect?

What should the rules on Wet, Snapping, Towel be?

 

[Verequus]

So, when I cast Create Water, it can fill up to the area of effect?

If a 5-ft. cube filled with water (3375 liter) doesn't cost more than 20 gp, then you can do this with a cantrip.

What should the rules on the Wet, Snapping, Towel be?

The rules mention a galley, which can be created with Create Natue alone. I'm not sure, if one needs metal to build a galley, but I don't think, that it is unbalancing, if you would use the following rule of Transform also for Create:

If you’re unsure which element you need for a spell, use whichever is most prominent. Thus, if you want to turn a pumpkin into a carriage, use Transform Nature, even though some parts of the wagon are metal.

In this regard, I think that your version is fine.

 

[Lela]

Shnifty. Thanks. I was going to take the soapy out but I'll leave it in and give the same option as the water (as much or as little soap as is reasonable).

 

[genshou]

If a 5-ft. cube filled with water (3375 liter) doesn't cost more than 20 gp, then you can do this with a cantrip.



The rules mention a galley, which can be created with Create Natue alone. I'm not sure, if one needs metal to build a galley, but I don't think, that it is unbalancing, if you would use the following rule of Transform also for Create:



In this regard, I think that your version is fine.

Actually, to create a galley requires 5 MP spent on Create spell lists for the item price, so you can actually split the MP between five separate elements. Thus, I would require Create Metal to craft the metal components. If a caster didn't have Create Metal, I wouldn't allow the ship to have anything made of non-Nature material.

As for creating a snapping towel, that's enough water that I would require the caster knows the Create Water spell list, but would not require any MP be spent on it for the spell.

 

[Verequus]

Actually, to create a galley requires 5 MP spent on Create spell lists for the item price, so you can actually split the MP between five separate elements. Thus, I would require Create Metal to craft the metal components. If a caster didn't have Create Metal, I wouldn't allow the ship to have anything made of non-Nature material.

As for creating a snapping towel, that's enough water that I would require the caster knows the Create Water spell list, but would not require any MP be spent on it for the spell.

That is correct, and I've thought about this solution, but this isn't supported by the RAW, so I didn't mentioned it. Maybe RW includes these extra rules?

 

[genshou]

That is correct, and I've thought about this solution, but this isn't supported by the RAW, so I didn't mentioned it. Maybe RW includes these extra rules?

Actually, yes it is.

Monetary Guidelines: Regardless of what specific
enhancements you get for a Create spell, the total MP
spent on Create lists determines the maximum monetary
value of item you can create.

Edit: Oh, and I didn't get the example of a spell which doesn't use a spell list but requires it for full descriptive effect. I wasn't sure what you meant by above statement so the original plan was to include both. Look up the light of grace spell in sample Heal spells.

 

[Verequus]

My statement was regarding, that while you can mix the Create spell list, you would have to spend at least 1 MP in every list. I thought, that it is ridiculous to pay 2 MP for a snapping towel. And while the example of light of grace is a precedent (which I haven't remembered), it isn't included in the rules per se. Not that I am against such a rule - but I'd like to have it in black and white, not to extrapolate it.