Mixing grapple attempts with natural attacks

[Thanee]

As far as I understand it, once you're in the grapple you can still attack with a natural weapon as a grapple action, taking -4 to hit on each of those attacks.

Yes, you can still attack with a natural weapon (at -4), but that is using the special grapple action Attack Your Opponent. These actions are based on your BAB, so with a BAB of +12 you could make three such attacks (+12/+7/+2). Also, you are limited to using only one natural weapon (see Rake (and please, don't ask me why you have to look up Rake to find that bit)), so it would be either claw/claw/claw or bite/bite/bite then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pinotage]

No. Bad kitty. You may not use two (or more) weapons while grappling. That includes your claw/claw/bite.

Bad kitty! Hey! Stop that! AAARGH!

Grrr! Yes, you're right! But he can still use that one natural weapon for as many attacks at -4 as his BAB would allow. Purrr! Happy now?

Pinotage

 

[Thanee]

Only problem there is this part:

Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.

But I do not think it applies in a grapple.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

But I do not think it applies in a grapple.

Based on...?

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Based on, that you do not attack normally in a grapple.

They do not receive additional attacks, they receive additional special grapple actions.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Based on, that you do not attack normally in a grapple.

They do not receive additional attacks, they receive additional special grapple actions.

"If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses."

If you're using natural weapons, your base attack bonus doesn't allow you multiple attacks.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Sure does, you just do not receive them.

Besides, it's not really relevant, since you receive the actions before you turn them into natural attacks. I don't think you can take them away then retroactively.

Well... grapple rules are a big mess, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Sure does, you just do not receive them.

She rises a good point here. Give that beast a weapon and suddenly it's got iterative attacks. And that fighter doesn't grapple with his greatsword, either, she makes basically unarmed attacks.

 

[Caliban]

"If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses."

If you're using natural weapons, your base attack bonus doesn't allow you multiple attacks.

-Hyp.

I think you are misinterpreting that section of the rules. It's referring to having a BAB of +6 or higher, as opposed to a BAB of +5 or lower, which doesn't grant multiple attacks.

And in this case, you are not using natural weapons in the normal sense. You are Grappling, which is always based off your BAB. It just so happens that one of the grapple options specifically allows you to make an attack a -4 with a light weapon or natural weapon, instead of a normal grapple check for damage.

 

[Pinotage]

Yes, you can still attack with a natural weapon (at -4), but that is using the special grapple action Attack Your Opponent. These actions are based on your BAB, so with a BAB of +12 you could make three such attacks (+12/+7/+2). Also, you are limited to using only one natural weapon (see Rake (and please, don't ask me why you have to look up Rake to find that bit)), so it would be either claw/claw/claw or bite/bite/bite then.

Bye
Thanee

Presumably this can't be with the weapon that initiated the grapple? So a lion that uses a bite to get a grapple can only use claws, while a bear grappling with claws can use its bite?

Pinotage