Mixing It Up

[Mathew_Freeman]

I'm running one 4e game and playing in another, and the one I'm playing in is taking a short hiatus due to the DM having too much work on at the moment to be able to spare time for gaming (without taking time away from other activities, like, y'know, sleeping...).

To fill the gap, we've been playing some Rules Encyclopedia D&D, and it's been a fun change. I'm still missing the strengths of 4e, but there are some things that I'm really enjoying. Firstly, and most importantly, it's Having My Own Minions.

Each PC is currently adventuring with at least two minions - one "farm boy" that is mostly carrying stuff and sometimes flinging javelins (hey, at first level their THACO20 isn't much worse than mine!) and a man-at-arms that is fighting in melee alongside us. Given the high lethality of combat, we've gone through a few already and the difference in player reaction is quite marked (my Thief is taking the view that they're all just cannon-fodder anyway, whereas the Cleric is weeping and wailing and swearing eternal vengeance against their killers).

It's a lot of fun having them around to be abused / soak damage / get in the way / provide missile support etc.

The other thing we've been talking about is how "gaining levels" seems to be comparitively less important in this game compared to gaining treasure, items and prestige. Since the rate of levelling is so slow (and the rewards bunched up much more) it's less important to level than it is to get neat stuff. Given, as well, that by the time the Elf has reached 2nd level my Thief will be heading for 4th it makes quite a difference.

So, the point of all this is that I was wondering if you could play a 4e game with some different assumptions in mind:

1) Levelling will happen rarely, and at the DM's discretion. Consequently, the game may have to start at a higher level, and retraining of powers will probably be available during rests between adventures.

2) It is possible to hire minions, back-up soldiers and other NPC's to accompany you. Will need to create stats for these, but it's likely that farm-boys will certainly be actual 1hp minions. Soldiers could be monsters with only a basic attack, and don't scale by level. The idea is to have numbers, not quality, behind your PC's.

3) Temporal power (Mages Guild, your own Keep, building a Temple, Rogues Guild, power in local Shaman circles etc) is a focus on the game. Players are encouraged to find old rules-sets to help this happen, and some sessions will not involve any dungeon-crawling, instead focusing on political play, home-base problems, or just plain hanging out.

I hope that this sort of game would encourage players to spend more time on skills ideas that further their background. Actually venturing into dungeons could get a lot more complicated with several minions hanging around, but so long as the players understand this and the adventures are designed with this in mind it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Perhaps it's Farm Boys = 1hp, Soldiers = two hits (first hit bloodies them, second kills) to make it easier (plus, would allow no hp tracking - just use bloodied counters or markers as you would for any other creature).

This would also obviously mean that "Leader" classes (particularly the Warlord) might end up being comparatively more powerful, but hey, they are Warlords after all - so why not?

What do people think? Would you want to play in a game like this? Too much paperwork?

 

[vagabundo]

Sounds cool. I am hoping that 4e will have some stronghold-name level type stuff soon (DMG III???) as I always have a soft spot for RC. A real soft spot.

1. Not sure if you need to start PCs on a high level. They are pretty bad-ass at first level, esp compared with minions.
2. I've had some thoughts about two hit minions myself. I'd also rule that massive damage would kill them too - like 10hp + 5hp per level - to avoid any unusual circumstances. But the DM could just wing it. And they don't have to be dead on a hit, just unwilling or unable to continue adventuring.
3. As I said I hope there is something cool in the DMGIII for this kind of play, still you could always just plunder from past editions.

 

[LostSoul]

That's interesting.

From my 4e game:

1. I leave XP the same. I like the player-driven aspect of default XPs - tougher monsters, higher risk, higher reward.

2. One PC had a few (3) guys following him around; he controlled them with minor actions. They were minions and if they went down in combat they had to make a Heal check to bring them back (or stabilize them with healing during the combat). After a while he stopped using them; I think he got bored with them or something, not sure.

He had the opportunity (via long-term skill challenge) to make them "henchmen", to raise them up from minion status to whatever he wanted (skirmisher, artillery, lurker, etc.). He never did complete their training. One interesting thing that came from a failed roll was that Bob the human rabble lost his confidence and ended up sulking alone and was killed by a doppleganger. (I messed up the doppleganger's power, making the Insight DC 10 or 20 less than it should have been, so the doppleganger was spotted right away.)

3. We grabbed some stuff from the earlier editions (1E and BECMI) about raising strongholds and getting followers, etc. I gave the PCs quests (level 10major quests) to build their own keeps, strongholds, temples, etc. If they had built these things, they would have attracted the followers dictated by the random tables in those books (translated to 4E, of course).

Sadly the PCs died in a temple dedicated to Orcus before they could complete their strongholds.