MM4's Bluespawn Godslayer

[MerricB]

Hmmmm, I sense a dark plot here called "job security".

Hehe. Actually, it's a very interesting point: not including the text saves space and is (moderately) obvious to (some) people. However, (other) people may become confused. It doesn't bother me that much - the less text I have to reference, the better. (I've just come from looking at Kyuss's stats in AoW part 12, and that's a monster of a statblock...)

Cheers!

 

[Dark Psion]

No that's an EPIC stat block.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Unswerving loyalty isn't typical of the Neutral Evil alignment.

Just because they're loyal to Tiamat doesnt necessarily mean they're going to be Lawful. You can be loyal to a cause or an individual and still be Chaotic in general. Show me where in the Neutral Evil description that it says they're forbidden to be loyal to anything?

Orcs and lizardmen tend to make weapons. I don't remember ever seeing forge in a dragon's lair along with a spellcaster available to create such specific items.

I dont seem to remember your typical dragon's lair having dies to make coins, jewelcrafter tools to make gems, or forges for the worked metal, and yet I dont see anyone complaining about the heaps of treasure they have lying around. Since they're born to dragons, I'm assuming they're using a sword out of that horde or that they found afterwords. I can think of quite a few ways a dragon could get it's spawn such a weapon, and dont understand why you feel the entry needs to explain it in intricate detail. Nothing says it HAS to be a Bastard sword, that's just what's commonly used, much in the same way Orcs are commonly seen with Falchions and Javelins and Titans are seen with +3 adamantine warhammers.

 

[jgbrowning]

Just because they're loyal to Tiamat doesnt necessarily mean they're going to be Lawful. You can be loyal to a cause or an individual and still be Chaotic in general. Show me where in the Neutral Evil description that it says they're forbidden to be loyal to anything?

Not loyal. Unswervingly loyal. Argue my point instead of a the strawman of "forbidden." I never said "forbidden."

I dont seem to remember your typical dragon's lair having dies to make coins, jewelcrafter tools to make gems, or forges for the worked metal, and yet I dont see anyone complaining about the heaps of treasure they have lying around. Since they're born to dragons, I'm assuming they're using a sword out of that horde or that they found afterwords. I can think of quite a few ways a dragon could get it's spawn such a weapon, and dont understand why you feel the entry needs to explain it in intricate detail.

Bad logic. Coins, gems, and other forms of worked metal are looted from those who make them. Please tell me who's making all those Huge +2 bastard swords that the Bluespawn are mostly encountered with? And then, if you find that possible, where are all those appropriately sized dragon skulls for shields coming from?

It's silly, it was chosen for kewlness factor, and it doesn't make sense. Extrapolate that "hey, it could work under this circumstance" all you want. I want you to extrapolate how it works under most cirucmstances which is what the stat block states.

It's bad design.

Nothing says it HAS to be a Bastard sword, that's just what's commonly used, much in the same way Orcs are commonly seen with Falchions and Javelins and Titans are seen with +3 adamantine warhammers.

Actully the text itself says it has to be "Most are encountered just with their signature weapons and shields."

Again, if you're saying "You can fix it" you're saying "It's bad design."

Let it go. It's bad design. If you can't see that, no point talking anymore.

joe b.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Not loyal. Unswervingly loyal. Argue my point instead of a the strawman of "forbidden." I never said "forbidden."

#1: That's a nitpick.
#2: You can be unswervingly loyal and be Neutral Evil. Neutrla Evil people do things that are in their own best interests, after all. If it's in their own best interests to be unswervingly loyal to their creator, you can bet your hinder that they will be. They might not be lawful in any other respect, though.

Bad logic. Coins, gems, and other forms of worked metal are looted from those who make them. Please tell me who's making all those Huge +2 bastard swords that the Bluespawn are mostly encountered with? And then, if you find that possible, where are all those appropriately sized dragon skulls for shields coming from?

It's silly, it was chosen for kewlness factor, and it doesn't make sense. Extrapolate that "hey, it could work under this circumstance" all you want. I want you to extrapolate how it works under most cirucmstances which is what the stat block states.

How do most 10th level NPCs get their magic equipment?

For these guys, perhaps the Redspawn Arcaniss crafts them weapons, perhaps they raid dungeons themselves, perhaps they have sorcerers in their tribes (not unusual, what with the dragon blood thing), they have mining operations and forges, they take slaves...his is how it works under most circumstances, I'd imagine.

It's bad design.

More like incomplete fluff, I think.

The rest of your post I'll totally agree with.

 

[Vanye]

Please tell me who's making all those Huge +2 bastard swords that the Bluespawn are mostly encountered with? And then, if you find that possible, where are all those appropriately sized dragon skulls for shields coming from?

Tiamat. Duh.

Seriously, though, if these are created primarily by the Dragon Goddess (and I don't have the MM4 yet....) then I don't see why she couldn't have factored into the creation of their weapons and armor. Or directed them to the appropriate giants for the weapons.

As for the dragon skull shields...wouldn't a goddes be able to find out where dead dragon bodies are? Or better yet, send some chosen warriors against good dragons of the appropriate age type, to get skulls?

Again, if you're saying "You can fix it" you're saying "It's bad design."
Let it go. It's bad design. If you can't see that, no point talking anymore.

Then you might as well end the conversation right now, because not everyone feels that is' bad design. if I have to rely on the game designers to tell me how a creature comes equipped with something, then I might as well hang up my DM's hat. I can come up with that anytime...

 

[Shade]

if I have to rely on the game designers to tell me how a creature comes equipped with something, then I might as well hang up my DM's hat. I can come up with that anytime...

And you've just hit on why many of have lost all interest in the MMIV and its new format.

 

[Presto2112]

Please don't.

One reason I like dragonspawn (apart from I like Tiamat as an ultimate enemy) is because they are rather simple, yet noticably different from each other. Thus, it's easy to have a group of different dragonspawn and run them... unlike, perhaps, a group of demons or devils, where the special abilities (e.g. Vrock spores) begin to interfere.

Finding this kind of balance is keeping me from creating a D&D version of the Slivers from Magic: the Gathering. The concept, IMO, rocks, but implementing it seems to be tougher than anticipated.

 

[jgbrowning]

You can be unswervingly loyal and be Neutral Evil.

Of course one might be unswervingly loyal. But ALL are. Not one.

For these guys, perhaps the Redspawn Arcaniss crafts them weapons, perhaps they raid dungeons themselves, perhaps they have sorcerers in their tribes (not unusual, what with the dragon blood thing), they have mining operations and forges, they take slaves...his is how it works under most circumstances, I'd imagine.

This makes quite a few new assumptions about the interconnectedness of blue dragons and their environment. Given their description says that blue dragons are "sometimes forced to eat snakes, lizards, and desert plants" I don't think that most blue dragons possess such a large social environment capable of producting exactly the right huge weapon that most Bluespawn GS use. If so, it seems a bit stretching it.

And this is still not addressing the idea of dragon-skull shields. What size dragon would you need for a huge skull? At least Gargantuan if not Colossal. Not easy to find, make, or purchase those, yet most Bluespawn Godslayers possess them. Bah.

More like incomplete fluff, I think.

Fluff is design.

joe b.

 

[jgbrowning]

A Bluespawn Slayer with no weapon or shield but still maintaining the same stats would be better design.

And applicable to almost every D&D world.

For christsake, I mean, look at the Eberon entry. They're abandoned in the desert as hatchlings yet most of them still have a Huge +2 bastard sword and dragon-skull shield when encountered? WTF?

And I'm done with this creature and this thread.

joe b.