Modifying Under Performing SRD Monsters, or "Building A Better Otyugh"

[Cleon]

Fair enough--Harryhausen carnosaurs are pretty speedy. I was thinking more tail-dragging lumbering behemoths like in The Lost World.

Well even in The Lost World the carnosaurs were pretty speedy.

In the book, two Stoa chased down some natives who'd disturbed them and squashed them too death, and another would probably have caught the fleeing Malone if he hadn't fallen into that pit-trap. I think both those humans would probably have had the Run feet: the natives lived on a plateau filled with huge maneaters, so they'd need to be good at running away; and Malone was a noted amateur rugby player, which would require him to cover ground quickly.

As for the film, the carnosaurs were pretty speedy, albeit jerky in their movements, in the 1925 film. It's hard to tell, but I think they were faster than a man. In the 1960 version they were slower than a person, but they were also represented by a monitor lizard & caiman with plastic stuck to them, which is not a look I'm aiming for. The only The Lost World film I remember seeing which had oldschool bipedal carnosaurs slower than humans was the 1992 one with John Rhys-Davies as Challenger.

Why yes, I do watch a lot of dinosaur movies, how did you guess?

 

[Cleon]

Since the obsolete model of a Tyrannosaurus we're basing this beast on was semi-erect, it should have the reach of a Tall creature. I think I'll also tweak its length and weight up a little, something like "A typical primal tyrannosaurus stretches almost 50 feet from nose to tail and weighs around 25000 pounds. Towering 25 feet tall, its jaws are 6 feet long, with teeth like razor-sharp steak-knives up to 6 inches in length."

Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.

EDIT: Or how about this, slightly closer to the SRD text:

Despite its enormous size and 25000 pound weight, a primal tyrannosaurus is surprisingly swift and agile. An average primal tyrannosaurus is almost 50 feet long from nose to tail, towering 25 feet in height. Its jaws are nearly 6 feet long, with teeth like razor-sharp steak-knives up to 6 inches in length. ​

 

[freyar]

Well, I know I can't keep up with you two.

If it really ends up with Su abilities, then I'm ok with magical beast, but otherwise I'd stick it with animal.

Dire animals have all good saves, so there would be precedent for primal dinos getting good Will for sure.

 

[Cleon]

Sorry for the delay. I've been occupied by work, rpg.net threads and writing up 2E stats for a cross between a giant owl and an otyugh.

After mulling it over, I'd rather give it a poor Will save and some appropriate resistances. It just seems inappropriate to give a good Will save to a monster that in fiction tends to be represented as stereotypically stupid.

As for the rest of the stats, here's my thinking so far:

Armor Class - I want something enough natural armour not to be negligible (so a non-munchkin full BAB character of its CR has a slight chance of missing), but it shouldn't be too high. The dire animals / SRD tyrannosaurus AC is too low for my purposes. Let's say AC21, so a +16 melee attack (not unusual for a 12th+ level character) can hit it on a 5+. That reverse-engineers to +12 natural armour.

Feats - Since we've decided to drop Run, we might as well address the other feats. I'll get rid of the useless triple Toughness feats, and I don't much care for Alertness. I'd rather give it a tweak on its racial bonus to Spot and/or Listen instead. Track should stay, since the fictional carnosaurs often sniff after prey. I like demiurge's version swapping Improved Critical for its bite's Improved Natural Attack, and already proposed Combat Reflexes. Iron Will and Power Attack are both very useful and, I think, appropriate. Weapon Focus (bite) may as well stay for the time being.

That leaves one feat, I fancy giving it a few extra natural attacks, so it may qualify for Multiattack. Awesome Blow seems appropriate, but it doesn't have the Improved Bull Rush prerequisite. I won't propose Snatch, since I fancy giving it a Special Attack based on that (see below).

Environment - in fiction and films these creatures normally live in tropical jungles, but can turn up in most inappropriate terrain such as mountain valleys (Gwangi) or deserts (One Million Year's BC). So either Warm Forest or Any Warm Land?

Attacks - As previously mentioned, I want to give it a kick attack. Pulp carnosaurs are often portrayed with furiously lashing tails (especially by Ray Harryhausen), so I fancy giving it a tail-slap/tail-sweep attack similar to a dragon. Since this is such an exaggerated monster and is near the upper reaches of the Huge size category, I propose giving it natural attack damage dice that intrude into Gargantuan territory:

Bite: 4d6+14 damage
Kick: 3d6+7 damage (or +14 as a standard attack)
Tail-slap: 2d8+21 damage? (-5 to hit as it always attacks as a secondary)(30' reach?)
Tail-sweep: 2d6+7 damage? (Special Attack: I never liked giving tail-sweep a 2H weapon bonus)

Special Attacks & Qualities - I'll leave the SA/SQ details to subsequent posts, but I'm thinking of tweaking Swallow Whole so it spits out prey than injure it, and changing Improved Grab to a Seize Prey SA based on the Snatch feat (I read the feat last week and realized it contained most of the basic functionality I was after for Improved Grab and Pin Underfoot), plus adding Special Attacks for its Lashing Tail, Leaping Talons, Pounce, Terrifying Roar, Toxic Jaws (?) and Worry. As for Special Qualities, since we're inflating its other abilities so much already, I may as well throw in my Enhanced Scent idea. I've already mentioned Ignore Death and some kind of Primal Magic Resistance.

I'll just go and update the "working post" version.

 

[Cleon]

Right, I think I'll give the Primal Rex Lightning Reflexes as its last feat.

That just leaves Skills and I can start on the SA/SQ.

For racial bonuses, I'll go for +10 racial bonus on Jump, +4 on Hide, Spot and Survival and +2 on Listen, not to forget the tracking bonus for Enhanced Sense. In case you're wondering why it's such a good jumper, carnivorous dinosaurs are sometimes described as bounding around like immense kangaroos in the pulp-ish sources that inspire the Primal Rex. Hmm… I'll probably let it always take 10 on Jump checks too.

21 skill points from HD 18. say 4 ranks Hide, 2 ranks Jump, 5 ranks Listen, 6 ranks Spot, 4 ranks Survival, giving it.

Skills: Hide +1, Jump +30, Listen +9, Spot +12, Survival +10 [+14 when tracking by scent]

As for Special Abilities, I'm more or less decided on the Extraordinary abilities:

Enhanced Scent (Ex): This functions like the scent special quality (q.v.), except that it has double the range of regular scent (60 ft. normally, 120 ft. upwind and 30 ft. downwind), and the primal tyrannosaurus has a +4 racial bonus on scent checks, which stacks with its racial bonus to Survival for purposes of tracking.
​

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the Snatch feat inspired me to create a Seize Prey special attack that combines improved grab with the Rex holding prey in its jaws and pinning them underfoot.

Here's the SRD feat

Snatch [General]
Prerequisite: Size Huge or larger.
Benefits: The creature can choose to start a grapple when it hits with a claw or bite attack, as though it had the improved grab special attack. If the creature gets a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage. A snatched opponent held in the creature’s mouth is not allowed a Reflex save against the creature’s breath weapon, if it has one.
​

The creature can drop a creature it has snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If the creature flings a snatched opponent while flying, the opponent takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

I'll basically just remove the bits about a breath weapon and flying, which are irrelevant (unless the Primal Rex has the half-dragon template added ), step up the sizes involved and add a bit of explanatory text about follow-up attacks.

Seize Prey (Ex): The primal tyrannosaurus can choose to start a grapple when it hits with a kick or bite attack, as though it had the improved grab special attack. If the tyrannosaurus gets a hold on a creature two or more sizes smaller, on subsequent rounds it can opt to either make a Worry attack against the creature, squeeze the creature for automatic bite or kick damage, or make a Swallow Whole attack against a creature held in its jaws.

A primal tyrannosaurus can seize two such lesser prey simultaneously, one in its jaws and one under a foot. The tyrannosaurus is not considered flat-footed while seizing lesser prey and can attack into its threatened squares normally, including Attacks of Opportunity, although it has a -20 penalty on its grapple checks against its seized prey during rounds it attacks other foes and cannot make opportunity attacks with a natural weapon while it uses it to seize prey (i.e. it can only bite the opponent held in its jaws, not other foes).

The primal tyrannosaurus can move normally with a lesser victim held in its jaws. If it has a lesser prey seized in a foot it must make a grapple check as if moving with a pinned opponent, which counts as a Move action for the tyrannosaurus instead of a standard action as per the basic grapple rules.

The tyrannosaurus can drop a creature it has seized as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet travelled.
​

The other extraordinary attacks I fancy are pretty straight-forward:

Lashing Tail (Ex): A primal tyrannosaurus's tail has double the reach of a creature of its size. Its tail attack rolls are always penalized as if they were secondary attacks, even if it is the only attack they make in a round. The tyrannosaurus can make tail-slap attacks which apply 1½ times its damage bonus from strength or make a tail sweep attack as a standard action.

The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (40 feet for a Gargantuan tyrannosaurus, 60 feet Colossal one), extending from an intersection on the edge of the tyrannosaurus's space in any direction. The tail-sweep automatically inflicts 2d6+14 damage to all creatures within the affected area that are two or more sizes smaller than the tyrannosaurus, halved if they make a DC 27 Reflex save.

The save DC is Constitution-based.
​

I decided to just give its tail-sweep full DB rather than the ½DB I was originally toying with.

Leaping Talons (Ex): As a full round action, a primal tyrannosaurus can jump to make two kick attacks, each kick is a +30 melee attack doing 3d6+14 damage. It can take 10 on its jump check, so an average primal tyrannosaurus can leap 40 feet horizontally, and can move up to a double move before attacking.

A primal tyrannosaurus can attack two separate targets with Leaping Talons if they are both within a space no wider than the tyrannosaurus's reach. If the tyrannosaurus uses both of its Leaping Talons' kick attacks against a creature two or more size categories smaller than itself it rolls for each attack but can only use the best result, since it can not strike such a lesser foe simultaneously with both feet..

Pounce (Ex): If a primal tyrannosaurus charges a foe, it can make a kick and a bite attack, including a Swallow Whole attempt if it succeeds in Seize Prey with the bite.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A primal tyrannosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+14 points of bludgeoning damage and 8 points of acid damage per round from the tyrannosaurus’s gizzard. If a swallowed creature can use a light slashing or piercing weapon to attack the gizzard (AC 16), if they deal 25 points of damage the tyrannosaurus will spit them out. Only the creature that inflicted the damage exits; another swallowed opponent must force its own way out.

A Huge tyrannosaurus’s gizzard can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny, or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
​

As previously mentioned, I don't like the idea of them cutting their way out of the tyrannosaurus's side with scant effect on the monster.

Toxic Jaws (Ex): A primal tyrannosaurus's fangs are swimming in toxic bacteria and stained with the deliquescing remains of its victims. Any creature bitten by the tyrannosaurus must make a DC 27 Fortitude save or contract the disease festering death.

Festering death—bite, Fortitude DC 27, incubation period 1d3 days; damage 1d6 Str and 1d6 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Worry (Ex): A primal tyrannosaurus can inflict 8d6+28 damage by making a successful grapple check against a held opponent, tearing at its victim with its jaws and foreclaws. It can make a worry attack instead of a regular melee bite attack.
​

So that just leaves Ignore Death, Primal Magic Resistance and some kind of frightful presence or terrifying roar power. I'll have to think about those for a bit.

I'll just go and update the "working post" version.

 

[Melatuis]

Love the Feats! Love the monster also.

Can the above feats to be converted to "monster feats" and added to CC's Monster Feat list?

 

[Cleon]

Love the Feats! Love the monster also.

Can the above feats to be converted to "monster feats" and added to CC's Monster Feat list?

Well I don't see why not, although I haven't got that product so someone else will need to do the work or converting these Special Attacks to monster feats.

Maybe Seize Prey could be part of a feat chain, with Snatch as a prerequisite?

 

[Cleon]

Here's the first of the Primal Rex's more incredible powers, based on the pulp trope that dinosaurs were "too stupid too know that they're dead" or "late to their own funeral".

Ignore Death (Ex): A primal tyrannosaurus possesses an incredible vitality that allows it to fight without penalty while at negative hit points, it also automatically makes any checks to become stable when it's in the dying condition. At the end of each round a primal tyrannosaurus is in negative hit points, the tyrannosaurus must make a Fortitude check against a DC of DC of 10 plus 1 for every 10 negative hit points. If it fails, its ability to Ignore Death ends and it suffers the normal consequences of its negative hit points - disabled, dying or dead. A primal tyrannosaurus at -10 hit points or fewer will take an additional 10 hit points of damage per round from its mortal wounds, applied just before it makes its Ignore Death check.


Ignore Death does not allow a primal tyrannosaurus to ignore the purely mechanical consequences of a wound. If one were to be decapitated by a vorpal sword, for example, its head would only be able to snap and glower impotently as it lay on the ground, while the rest of its body staggers about blindly like the world's scariest headless chicken.

Furthermore, a primal tyrannosaurus's life force is so strongly tied to its body they are exceptionally easy to raise from the dead. A raise dead spell cast on a primal tyrannosaurus is as effective as a resurrection, while a resurrection or higher spell can revive a primal tyrannosaurus regardless of how long it has been dead, even from fossilized remains that are millions of years old.
​

The last bit might seem a bit odd to some. It was inspired by certain pulp stories (e.g. the Conan novella Red Nails) which feature living dinosaurs that have been magically reconstituted from eons-old fossil bones. While obviously a D&D version could involve some non-standard spell, I chose to represent it as a peculiar characteristic of Primal monsters.

I wanted a DC check so there was some way to knock it unconscious with negative hit points. The DC dependency on hp/10 is simply to make the sums easier - just knock off the least digit of its negative HPs and add 10 and you get the necessary saving throw. I could have gone for a sum that combines time dead or dying and negative hit point score (something like DC = 10 + rounds dying/dead + hp/10), but the 'add 10 hp per round when in the dead condition" rule is simpler to figure.