Money Issues

[Gold Roger]

-taxes
-ale and whores
-build strongholds
-invest in business
-charity
-family
-bribes
-jewelry, banners and ridicolous outfits to show of
-getting stolen
-Invest in profit less, but fun scheemes
-throw parties
-throw entire festivals
-sacrifices to the gods
-golden statues of the PCs
-retirement fund

In short, all the stuff I'd expect PC wealth to go to, but never happened in 3rd and 4th because you need that money.

This also enables the level 15 but broke situation.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Personally I love to invest in property and businesses, into NPC hirelings and the like to make life comfortable for me, and on grandiose works of art.

Even those adventurers that just want to keep throwing themselves into the fray can surely find some benefit to spending large quantities of money on non-combat related items? Permanent teleportation circles, gates to the planes, even personal planes for when you really need to rest in peace. Why would your character want money if not to make life better for themselves, their kingdom or their religion?

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I'd still like to see some kind of fame/reputation/social network/lifestyle mechanic, for which money is very important, but the results are rather minor compared to adventuring. Keep the mechanics light and rather general, so that spending money in the ways you want to do it anyway has an effect in those areas.

If you invest in making businesses and trade networks, your fame and rep is with merchants and nobles that need loans. If you "invest" in carousing with the locals, you've always got a few buddies handy in a tavern, the docks, etc. If you build a library of magic and lore, you'll have some gruff admiration from wizards and sages.

The mechanics should have a light touch so that most players can approach this part of the game as more of a natural side effect than a reason for doing something a particular way. That is, whatever you do with your money, you'll get some minor benefits in the social sphere.

Aggressively pursuing land, noble titles, etc. become a special case of the above, where the results are more serious and the moves more calculated, but not without risk. Naturally, doing so also invokes some story hooks--because now you are trying to turn your gold into power.

 

[Agamon]

Just as an aside, you know our game isn't too grounded in reality when we need to ask the question, "What the heck do I do with all this money?"

 

[Agamon]

I'd still like to see some kind of fame/reputation/social network/lifestyle mechanic, for which money is very important, but the results are rather minor compared to adventuring. Keep the mechanics light and rather general, so that spending money in the ways you want to do it anyway has an effect in those areas.

If you invest in making businesses and trade networks, your fame and rep is with merchants and nobles that need loans. If you "invest" in carousing with the locals, you've always got a few buddies handy in a tavern, the docks, etc. If you build a library of magic and lore, you'll have some gruff admiration from wizards and sages.

The mechanics should have a light touch so that most players can approach this part of the game as more of a natural side effect than a reason for doing something a particular way. That is, whatever you do with your money, you'll get some minor benefits in the social sphere.

Aggressively pursuing land, noble titles, etc. become a special case of the above, where the results are more serious and the moves more calculated, but not without risk. Naturally, doing so also invokes some story hooks--because now you are trying to turn your gold into power.

This, I like. If it's not an option, I'm making it one.

 

[LostSoul]

I'd still like to see some kind of fame/reputation/social network/lifestyle mechanic, for which money is very important, but the results are rather minor compared to adventuring. Keep the mechanics light and rather general, so that spending money in the ways you want to do it anyway has an effect in those areas.

I like this idea - I use something like it in my hack.

What I think needs to be done with GP is to tie them into the "currency" of the game. This is how it works now: You adventure -> adventure depletes resources (typically HP and spells) but increases GP, magic items, and XP -> XP is spent developing PCs -> the depth and scope of adventure changes based on how PCs develop -> adventure depletes resources... etc.

XP & magic items are obviously there in the reward cycle; GP are missing.

I think they need to tie GP into that reward cycle. GP should change the depth and scope of the adventure. Crazy Jerome has has some ideas - and options for different players - on how to accomplish this in the post I quoted.

 

[1Mac]

If you invest in making businesses and trade networks, your fame and rep is with merchants and nobles that need loans. If you "invest" in carousing with the locals, you've always got a few buddies handy in a tavern, the docks, etc. If you build a library of magic and lore, you'll have some gruff admiration from wizards and sages.

These sound like Background components to me. I wonder if your proposal could tap into the Background mechanic in some way.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

What I think needs to be done with GP is to tie them into the "currency" of the game. This is how it works now: You adventure -> adventure depletes resources (typically HP and spells) but increases GP, magic items, and XP -> XP is spent developing PCs -> the depth and scope of adventure changes based on how PCs develop -> adventure depletes resources... etc.

XP & magic items are obviously there in the reward cycle; GP are missing.

Yep. Can't XP yet. My answer is my preferred answer, after many idle musings, on how to address that very problem. But whatever is done, it needs to fix the hole in the reward cycle where gold is concerned.

Also, I think gold needs to be specifically different than XP, and not tied (much) to direct personal power via purchase of items, training, etc. That's what prior versions have tried in various ways, but it always ends up chafing against the XP/Level advancement mechanics somewhere.

Or in other words, it's ok from a design perspective for personal power to have some "gold sinks"--to shave off a certain amount of wealth and put the pinch on adventurers to go get some more. But if that is the only reward cycle where gold matters, then you get a breakdown in the design eventually, compared to how people envision playing.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

These sound like Background components to me. I wonder if your proposal could tap into the Background mechanic in some way.

Off the cuff, I'd say it goes the other way. The fame and reputation is some simple bit outside all the other mechanics, representing indirect power and influence, which your Background may very well interact with, but not drive.

For example, if you are noble, it's easier for you to lend money to other nobles (depending on the social aspects in the campaign). But getting the money in the first place is something that any adventurer can do.

Fame and reputation are like equipment. They are part of your character in one sense, but not another. There are times and places where they matter more or less, and they can change or even be lost without really changing your skills, spells, etc.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

I love it because it frees up PCs from needing to loot corpses in a heroic game, and allows me to put in realistic treasures that make sense for the monsters.

If they put in some "lifestyle upkeep" optional rules, I'm set.