Mongoose Publishing's Rep...?

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WildWeasel said:
Also, Mongoose has a bit of a rep for trying to snipe major releases from other companies. WotC announces Draconomicon, and bang, Mongoose is now working on Classic Play: Book of Dragons. PP solicits for the IKCG, and a week or so later Mongoose announces OGL Steampunk.

Now that I am going to come down and refute. The distribution system (whereby you announce releases to distributors and the book trade WAAAAAAY before you chaps here about it) makes this quite impossible.

We have over 300 items in our back catalogue - it is inevitable that some would fall in sync with releases from other companies.

As for the rest of the discussion here, I stand by what I have said before. We picked up a lot of fans with our initial releases but if they were not your cup of tea, that is cool. If Slayer's Guides or Quints were not your thing, don't presume all our books are like that. The books we produce today are very different to those we did just a year ago.

Our goal is to hook you all. Sooner or later, we will do it :)
 

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I do actually like the Slayer's Guides and Quints I have; they're kinda the Pot Noodle of 3e - dirty but tasty. ;) BTW Matt there seems to be a lot of sexism in the stuff you've written - in the Quints it's retricted to the boxed flavour text, which isn't really a problem, but it can lead to some rather nonsensical (to me) sociology in the Slayer's Guides - eg (my wife pointed out this one) - in the Hobgoblin one it says female hobgoblins can be warriors, but lose all status when they get pregnant, and motherhood has no status in hobgob society - "expected but never rewarded" - in that case why would female hobgob warriors ever let themselves get pregnant?
Admittedly a lot of the sexism in the Slayer's Guides seems to derive from Gygax's original treatment of goblinoids, gnolls etc - I always thought it ironic gnolls were patriarchal when IRL hyenas are matriarchal and female hyenas have pseudo-penises that make rape impossible...
 

Pip-Boy 2000 said:
I tend to find that Mongoose products are not to my taste. For example, their sourcebook,The Quintessential Fighter (for D&D 3e) is fairly well-done, but some of the information contained therein seems... a little out there. A lot of strange weapons that make you wonder, "Why did they put this in the book...?" .

That goes double for WoTC's equipment lists in the PHB though - dire flails, double axes, loads of really stupid unworkable weapons. It got even worse with Sword & Fist's mercurial weapons...

I quite like Quint Fighter, it has lots of good ideas - eg the Fighting Styles - as well as mostly unusuable crunch. I generally find it easy to modify the crunch to something sensible - eg as written the Fighting Styles require WIS 20 to reach the highest rank, this needs to be altered to at most WIS 15, but in most cases the WIS requirement should just be discarded, and make each style rank cost a skill point to take. It wasn't really worth the £15 I paid for it, though.
 

Most of what MGP puts out (D&D mainly) is of no interest to me anyway since I don't want splatbooks or individual monster guides. I buy their Babylon 5 products and apart from a couple easily overlookable editing issues (Black Star rather than Dark Star for instance) I find the B5 books to be excellent.
 

MongooseMatt said:
Now that I am going to come down and refute. The distribution system (whereby you announce releases to distributors and the book trade WAAAAAAY before you chaps here about it) makes this quite impossible.

No it doesn't. It requires a three month or so lead time for solicitations to distributors. Items are often announced before then.

And even if it is no more than happy coincidence, it has happened enouigh to give the appearence of such sniping.
 

WildWeasel said:
No it doesn't. It requires a three month or so lead time for solicitations to distributors.

Are you really contending you understand the times associated with marketing than someone whose livelihood depends on it? Chances are, they solicited a manuscript and started its development LONG before either product was announced.

And even if it is no more than happy coincidence, it has happened enouigh to give the appearence of such sniping.

I don't think so. It's sort of hard to suggest that Mongoose is "sniping", especially in the area of D&D-targeted d20 supplements, when it should be pretty clearly apparent that they are hitting most of the major Fastasy RPG topics. "Dragons" is hardly the most unique thing to write a book about for fantasy games.
 

My buying experience with Mongoose is limited to the past 12-18 months, so I can't speak to the products the company produced in its early years. However, I have yet to be disappointed by a single Mongoose purchase that I have made. A couple of points/opinions I'd like to make:

1. The editing issues vary from book to book. Some are very tight, with few or no errors. Others have more than their fair share. However, I didn't find them to be worse than I saw in prior years from Traveller, Rolemaster, and White Wolf products. Not that they're desireable, I'm just surprised at how every negative Mongoose post seems to focus on this aspect over content.

2. Mongoose has a very wide range of products. Just like WotC, every line/book is not going to be fit everyone's taste. I have little interest in playing core-rulebook-style D&D (it still has too many of the sacred cows that caused me to abandon the earlier editions) so things like the Quint. series haven't earned my dollar. On the flip side, I am extremely interested in their OGL and licensed games (OGL Cybernet, etc.; Conan; eyeing Lone Wolf). Regardless, I researched Conan and OGL Cybernet before I bought them. Do the same with any book and your chances of feeling burned decrease significantly. People who have purchased 1 or 2 books sight unseen and then write a company off don't come across as knowledgable or objective to me.

3. Mongoose's Conan line is top-notch. I find it to be a better set of rules than the D&D core rules. It's supplements are original, detailed, and inventive and incorporate the right level of PG-13 & R-rated material to convey Conan without going over the top. They aren't the sanitized Conan-in-name-only version TSR did (and WotC would likely do today).

4. By way of comparison, I've been burned by Swords & Sorcery to the point I usually have to physically look at one of their books 2-3 times before I'll "risk" my money on their products. I purchased a significant amount of Scarred Lands material and was amazed and disgusted at how unbalanced their d20 crunch was. Talk about your Munchkin's Dream. Also, the quality of the line was very inconsistent, which seems to be a criticism of the Quintessential line. My point here is that without a tight thematic focus such as a licensed-product or genre focus, you're going to get varying quality when different authors write different books in the series. Look at Scarred Lands. Look at the Quintessential series. Hell, look at the Complete <flavor of the month> books from AD&D 2e. This may be a fair criticism of Mongoose's other lines, I can't say. I can say, though, it is a criticism that equally applies to other companies.

Finally, Mongoose is, by all acounts I can find, a profitable d20/OGL company that:
A. Is growing where many of the d20 companies are shrinking or on life support

B. Admits mistakes and tries to address them to keep their customers happy. Most companies try to argue away criticisms of their products, dismiss them, or ignore them. Mongoose will step up and say, "Yes we've come to realize there is an issue with ..." and then tries to address it. Do you think WotC is going to say, "yeah, we really dropped the ball with d20 Future but we weren't willing to risk the money needed to do the sci-fi genre right."?

C. Is earning MORE of my RPG dollars than any other company.

Just my 2 cents.
 

WildWeasel said:
No it doesn't. It requires a three month or so lead time for solicitations to distributors. Items are often announced before then.

And even if it is no more than happy coincidence, it has happened enough to give the appearence of such sniping.

I have to come to Matt's defense on this. It may be a three month solicitation to distributors, but development time of the product is a heck of a lot longer. Many books are in the development stage for 6 months to a year (sometimes more). Not only do you have the time spent writing, you also have editing, art direction, and layout. Generally, art takes about a month to assign and get back. Editing (depending on the length of the book) can be 1 to 2 months. Layout will take a couple of weeks unless that is the only project you are working on.

By your example of Book of Dragons vs. Draconomicon, within that three month window, the book would have had to have been written, edited, art assigned, layout completed inside of 6 weeks because the printer is going to take another 6 weeks at the minimum unless you're going to pay a huge fee to have it rushed. Now, Matt's in the business to make money and I really doubt he's willing to pay the necessary fees to have a hardcover book printed and shipped in less than 6 weeks.

No, what you are seeing is the results of a small industry with similar lines of development going on at the same time. Contrary to what some gamers think, publishers do not have the time to monitor every other game manufacturer's projects (even if they all openly talked about it). Mongoose isn't out to steal the other companies' ideas and beat them to the punch. They are trying to be a successful publisher by offering a line of products that is diverse and will help them make money. And this means they will be making books that are similar to what other companies do from time to time.
 

Mongoose has also taken far more of my £s than any other game company by a long way - and that includes WotC - so I guess they're doing something right. I'd guess I've spent around £150 on their stuff, maybe more - 2 Quints, half a dozen Slayer's Guides, Conan & Slaine etc.
 

Partly I guess it's that Mongoose are British and while they don't have the reliable quality of Green Ronin or the slick production of WoTC, there is a gritty-but-fun flavour to their stuff that reminds me of White Dwarf in the '80s, a fire that otherwise had long gone out of the British RPG galaxy.
 

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