Mongoose Traveler's Amazing New Initiative System

[vongarr]

Wow, that's hot.

This Traveler, I like. I like it a lot. I can see some truly cinematic action coming from this.

 

[MerricB]

Hmm...

Don't have too many opponents, or it'll become too complicated quickly.

How do you break ties? With 10+ combatants (standard 4e combat), that'll happen a lot! Indeed, 75% of combatants will need to break ties every round!

I'm serious. Roll 2d6 and use the higher die as your initiative for next round. 75% of the time the higher die will be a 4+. Then add 2 to it. Oops, you've reached 6 again - the number of sides on a d6. So, 7 of those combatants will act together. Every round.

That's not an initiative system: that's a system for missing actions by rolling badly.

Awful beyond belief!

 

[JDJblatherings]

Hmm...

Don't have too many opponents, or it'll become too complicated quickly.

How do you break ties? With 10+ combatants (standard 4e combat), that'll happen a lot! Indeed, 75% of combatants will need to break ties every round!

I'm serious. Roll 2d6 and use the higher die as your initiative for next round. 75% of the time the higher die will be a 4+. Then add 2 to it. Oops, you've reached 6 again - the number of sides on a d6. So, 7 of those combatants will act together. Every round.

and apply DEX mods... to get different scores.

 

[GlassJaw]

This is totally different from Spycraft's shifting initiative for a couple reasons:

Sheesh. All I said was they are "similar" in that they both involve changing your initiative score. (need rolleyes emote!!)

And like Spycraft, I'm sure I wouldn't like this mechanic at the table. The complexity:fun ratio is much too high.

 

[Jim Hague]

This is totally different from Spycraft's shifting initiative for a couple reasons:

1. Everything is visually tracked on the table using an easy to adjust mechanism (a dice). This may not seem like it makes a difference, but it DOES. Initiative should be EASIER in a system that tracks it this way, not harder.

Whereas you can easily track fluid initiative in SC with an index card. By easily I mean visually. Of course, if you want to go way back, this 'new' system is cribbing heavily from Feng Shui, but missing the cool bits. It looks very functional, but it's hardly innovative.

2. Changing your initiative actually MEANS something and has tactical weight in this system, whereas in Spycraft, as in most d20 system games, it only matters very much if you're one attack away from going down. In what we've seen of the Mongoose Traveler system, initiative is an important enough part of tactics - possibly the MOST important part - to be tracked and manipulated to a greater degree of detail, just as position is worth tracking on a battlemap in d20.

Uh, you really haven't read SC 2.0, have you? Seriously, Init matters and matters a lot in the system, especially where you are in it. Some abilities rely on it, special attacks, etc. And given the default deadliness of the system, I'd say having a good tactical position is highly important. Again, the Mongoose system is just doing what other systems have already done., Given the relationship between Mongoose and Crafty, that's hardly surprising, nor is it a condemnation.

As for Feng Shui being less fun...how can you bag on a system that makes it easier to fire a pump shotgun if the player makes the CHA-CHAK! sound?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Whereas you can easily track fluid initiative in SC with an index card. By easily I mean visually. Of course, if you want to go way back, this 'new' system is cribbing heavily from Feng Shui, but missing the cool bits. It looks very functional, but it's hardly innovative.

I don't recall the smooth integration of suppressive fire and initiative in Feng Shui, though. Nor should it necessarily have had such integration, since mooks aren't going to hit action heroes with it even if the heroes calmly stride across a lawn, ala Arnold in Commando.

Anyway, that interaction is the innovative part.

Uh, you really haven't read SC 2.0, have you? Seriously, Init matters and matters a lot in the system, especially where you are in it. Some abilities rely on it, special attacks, etc.

I understand that (I actually used SC 2.0 for a fantasy campaign a few years ago). But unless those abilities say "take an entire extra action," or perhaps "instantly win the encounter, no matter what," they aren't as powerful or important as the ability to double-turn an opponent.

Consider the relative importance of Speed in the HERO System (where you can doubleturn) and Initiative in the d20 system (where you can't); HERO speed is vastly more powerful and expensive, with good reason.

And given the default deadliness of the system, I'd say having a good tactical position is highly important. Again, the Mongoose system is just doing what other systems have already done., Given the relationship between Mongoose and Crafty, that's hardly surprising, nor is it a condemnation.

Are we talking Spycraft or Mongoose Traveler? Because we can assume the latter will be fairly deadly, but don't exactly KNOW that yet.

Regarding Mongoose Traveler, I get the impression that position will be at least somewhat abstracted, as opposed to d20 where position is concrete (and is the main component of tactics).

As for Feng Shui being less fun...how can you bag on a system that makes it easier to fire a pump shotgun if the player makes the CHA-CHAK! sound?

I'm not bagging on Feng Shui at all! I'll likely not like the entirety of Mongoose Traveler nearly as much as I do Feng Shui, since I don't generally like 'gritty' or deadly systems. I'm only talking about their initiative systems.

 

[Aaron2]

It seems weird to me that you can choose the amount of damage your going to do after you roll your dice. Does it really take that much longer to shoot a guy in the head rather than in the arm?

If you roll a 6 and a 1 you can choose to wound him and fire again or choose to kill him and wait 3 round to fire again. That's just wrong. Plus how does the GM decide which one to choose. Does he always pick the highest effect die because he's got plenty of NPCs? Or does he go easy on the players and always pick the lower effect die?

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I like it.

I don't think the complexity will be a big deal. Mongoose Traveller is based on Classic Traveller, so I expect combat to be very, very fast compared to D&D. It's also very, very simple compared to D&D combat. Slowing it down a little to make it more complex is a good move IMO.

 

[Jackelope King]

I'm intrigued but not blown away. It looks like a nice take on a tick-based system. A very nice take on it. But I'm still not sure just how good it is.

Integrating your initiative roll with your action for the turn, so you essentially pick if your action does well or if you get to act again more quickly? I like that. That's darn cool.

I also think that how the author describes posting is a brilliant way to handle attacks of opportunity and similar actions. You can swoop and and take a swing at someone, but since you're still off-balance from before, it'll drop you down the initiative count, or make you eat a penalty to your attacks.

(And I need to reread Spycraft 2.0 now to compare it to this... I might have a variant initiative system to harvest.)

 

[Vargo]

Stuff like this is actually pretty common in CRPG-style games, and I know back in the early '90s I was working on a design that did something like this (computer aided, of course - not pen and paper) that allowed for different maneuvers with different recovery times from the maneuvers, and initiative penalties could be inflicted by others on you via various actions, etc.

In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, the original game Rogue I think may have been the first game to introduce a variable-timed "energy" ticker - your energy pool filled up behind the scenes in a hidden variable, and when your total energy was equal to or greater than X, you got to act, and a certain amount of energy would be deducted based on your chosen action. All the monsters had a similar variable, and would fill up at varying rates.