Mongoose's New IP: Traveller is BACK

[Treebore]

Well, actually, YES that is a huge difference. 1d20 is linear, and a +1 bonus is statistically worth 5% no matter what your current level of skill is or what your current circumstances are. 2d6 gives a bell curve, where a +1 can give anywhere from +10% to as little as +2% (or thereabouts, I don't have time just now to give exact numbers). Not only that, but the target number changes the value of a +1 modifier, so that +1 on a Formidible 11+ is worth less in real % chance of success than the same +1 modifier on a Routine 7+ target using the same exact skill.

Yes, it's granular, yes it's outdated, and no, I never said d20 was the perfect answer. It's just better. But then again, like I said above, that's my opinion. Go flip a coin for task resolution if you want, doesn't bother me in the least.

I see your point, and your right, if you want an open ended super hero system.

One of the things that appeals to me about 2d6 is that the resolution system keeps things "real". Meaning within normal human limits. All human ability can be shown on a "Bell Curve". You have a low end of ability, and a top end of ability. Rarely does it go beyond the top end. Even "geniuses" who go beyond the bell curve in IQ are somehow handicapped in other areas of ability. I have yet to meet anyone who was a genious, and a great social climber, and physically superior, let alone beyond the ranges of the standard bell curve.

Possible, I am sure. There are over 5 BILLION chances of it on the planet right now.

But I liked the fact that the 2d6 system keeps you so human. Even the aliens were human, overall. They may have excelled in physical ability, or mental ability, so could be "super human", but they often had achilles heels as well.

So a 2d6 bell curve is preferable when you don't want a game to go "super heroes", which is why I don't like T20. It goes super human. I would like that if I wanted to use cybernetics and bionics and human engineering, but I don't. I like MegaTraveller being normal humans.

If I want super hero I would go T20 or RIFTS or BESM, etc...

 

[Flynn]

I dunno. For one, it seems way too soon to have a proper 4th imperium not even 50 years from the start of TNE. From the description of it, it sounds like it's just TNE, only they've renamed the RC and Regency "the 4th Imperium".

Umm, I assume you haven't read the book, because neither of them became the Fourth Imperium... Really, you should try reading it first. I think if you actually allowed yourself the chance, you would be surprised by what's inside, and I mean that in a good way.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

I see your point, and your right, if you want an open ended super hero system.

One of the things that appeals to me about 2d6 is that the resolution system keeps things "real". Meaning within normal human limits. All human ability can be shown on a "Bell Curve". You have a low end of ability, and a top end of ability. Rarely does it go beyond the top end. Even "geniuses" who go beyond the bell curve in IQ are somehow handicapped in other areas of ability. I have yet to meet anyone who was a genious, and a great social climber, and physically superior, let alone beyond the ranges of the standard bell curve.

Ya know, in my T20 game, the characters remained quite within human norms.

On the other hand, that super hero game with the 3d6 bell curve, Champions/Hero System, can create some pretty powerful characters well outside human norms.

I mention both to point out that it's not the dice or the task mechanic that makes a game powerful, but how the system implements it. Agreed, in general, CT/MT characters fall into human norms much more often than D&D characters, but T20 does capture the feel of CT, including the fragility of characters in combat, and does a good job of keeping within human norms. It all depends on implementation.

In regards to the subject at hand, in the end, it doesn't matter to me which dice system Mongoose decides to use for the Traveller SRD/Basic Traveller. I must say I prefer 2d6 Roll High for nostalgia reasons, but I can always use the BITS Task System to translate from the Dice Pool Roll Low approach of T5 to my favored 2d6 Roll High if it comes to that.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[RFisher]

It seems to me that the real selling point of Traveller is not the mechanics; it's the setting IP.

Which is where I suppose I'm strange. I like the OTU, but the real draw of Traveller for me is the mechanics. (Although the mechanics tend to dictate--or at least encourage--certain elements of the setting.) Considering the track record of both new Traveller editions since cT & Mongoose's track record, there isn't any way I'm getting excited about this. (^_^)

I mean, I'll keep an open mind, but my presumption is that I'll just end up sticking with cT since--despite any warts--it's still better (for me) than every attempt to update it.

It needs to have a living, breathing setting (like the original CT, wit the TNS), not one static and set in the past (like T4 and presumably T5).

I suppose, but nothing turns me (personally) off to a setting more than that. It's my group's job to make the setting live & breath, not the publisher's.

 

[mhensley]

So a 2d6 bell curve is preferable when you don't want a game to go "super heroes", which is why I don't like T20. It goes super human.

Tell that to my CT character who had SMG-5. I never missed a shot once.

I don't see how you think T20 is for super heroes. No matter what your level, a shotgun is liable to kill you in one shot if you're not wearing armor. That doesn't sound like a super hero to me.

 

[buzz]

Tangent.

So a 2d6 bell curve is preferable when you don't want a game to go "super heroes", which is why I don't like T20.

The probability distribution of a die mechanic is meaningless when taken outside the context of the game as a whole. What matters is how those dice/cards/tokens/coins/whatever are used within the ruleset. Whether T20 or CT skews to far/close to "gritty"/"cinematic" has more to do with the ruleset built around the die mechanic, and the perceptions of it by the end user, than it does with what numbers show up on the dice.

I'm just sayin'.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Mongoose has a twofold problem to deal with the new Traveller.

First off, they need to modernise the game so that they can get new players into it; this means decoupling at least some of the setting-defining stuff from the rules (such as the one-week jump drive), which turn everything you do with Traveller into some variety of the OTU (which suffers from its greatest asset: the wealth of history and information that already exists about it; not the easiest setting for the new fans to get into).

At the same time, they must somehow manage to not antagonise the existing Traveller fanbase, which has a very high level of "grognardity": old fans who scream bloody murder if you change anything, and who already own several versions of the game.

If Mongoose can balance these two factors, they may have a winner in their hands; besides GURPS Space, there's a dearth of major SF games on the market, and an updated, improved Traveller could fill that position very nicely.

 

[SWBaxter]

The Traveller fanbase is exactly the opposite. The commonality among all fans is the love of the IP. What divides them up is the ruleset.

I wouldn't even go that far; lots of Traveller flamewars are sparked by various setting differences (Virus is probably the biggest one). I don't know if there is a commonality among all Traveller fans, but if there is it's probably in terms of general setting parameters - characters firmly within the human range, comparitively cheap interstellar travel, very lax interstellar government, that kind of thing.

So far as Mongoose goes, I think in order to make a go of it they'll need to focus on attracting new blood. Grab whatever they can of the current audience, but accept that it'll be far less than 100%, and try and ride the name and buzz to forge a new market. Fortunately for them, the SFRPG segment is pretty wide open at the moment.

 

[LostWorldsMike]

This is based on Classic Traveller? Bah! Who (besides Pogre and Painandgreed) wants a system where you roll up your character, only to have him die just before you get to play him? And yeah, I remember that complaint about Traveller computers... from the mid 80s!

I'm more than cool with Death During Generation, so add me to that list.

 

[QLI/RPGRealms]

So a 2d6 bell curve is preferable when you don't want a game to go "super heroes", which is why I don't like T20. It goes super human. I would like that if I wanted to use cybernetics and bionics and human engineering, but I don't. I like MegaTraveller being normal humans.

If I want super hero I would go T20 or RIFTS or BESM, etc...

T20 is super heroic?