Monk Abilities

[papastebu]

I ran this idea by a friend of mine the other day and he said it was horribly broken. I would like input/opinions and suggestions/fixes for it. It is not complicated, but might take a bit to implement.

Instead of having the monk gain wisdom bonus only for AC, add it to anything in the class that is related to dice or the mechanics of gameplay. For things like initiative, AC, and attack bonus, they get it once and it only goes up as the bonus increases. For movement bonus, it adds on each class level or every other level.
If this was used for the class, most of the mechanics-related numbers--speed bonus, etc--would have to be thrown over for the wisdom bonus.

My question is, could this be made to work? Would it be too cumbersome, or would it streamline the monk? Would it vault the monk class into the ridiculously over-powered range, or would it balance?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I don't understand what you mean. Could you give an example? E.g. a 10th level monk normally gets this, but under this proposal might like *this* way, or maybe *that* way?

 

[papastebu]

I don't have the monk abilities sitting in front of me, but the way I had envisioned this, it would work like so:

Roll abilities as normal.
For AC, the monk gets Dex + Wis, as usual.
For BAB, she gets Wis + current BAB. Possibly do away with flurry of blows, as this is going to allow for the monk to have iterative attacks earlier, anyway?
For movement, the monk gets no monk bonus exept wisdom bonus every level.
For any save, add the wisdom bonus--this is the one that I am concerned would be a gimme.
Abilities such as stunning fist and ki strike would add a wisdom bonus to hit.
Damage rolls would add wisdom bonus and strength bonus.
All skill checks take wisdom bonus.

This is what I meant when I said it might be broken. I can see that it would take quite a bit to work it in and modify all the monk stuff, but I can't see, after having done all that, that it wouldn't work. I like the idea because everything a monk does is about enlightenment, right?

 

[Technik4]

I like the idea because everything a monk does is about enlightenment, right?

Yes, but I feel the pursuit of enlightenment is best undertaken in a holistic way. You're basically turning the class into a one-score trick, and I'd imagine it would be even more ridiculous for clerics and druids to pop in for a level and and jump back out than it already is (which is to say, not much because they can wear armor which gives a bigger bonus than Wis to AC).

In short, No sir, I don't like it. Even if it were balanced (which it definitely is not), it changes the entire scope of the class.

 

[azabaro]

I think it's a neat idea - I'd been thinking about something similar, a way to focus the Monk on Wisdom and reduce some of the MAD problems. I have to agree with Technik4, though, that this ability is front-loaded and therefore just an invitation to 1-level dips from divine casters. How about if we tried to dole these features out over time...something like

Enlightened Techniques
Whenever the Monk gains a level, she designates a type of roll or value selected from the list below. From that point on, her Wisdom bonus is added to that roll or value. The same roll or value can't be chosen more than once.

• Armor Class
• Initiative
• one type of saving throw
• attack rolls with a certain weapon
• damage rolls with a certain weapon
• checks for a chosen skill

I tend to think that's some improvement, but still too fast - pretty much everybody would pick up AC, initiative, all 3 save types, and attack and damage bonuses with their preferred weapon by level 7, then spend any remaining levels picking skills to get bonuses. I'd prefer to slow this down even more, so that Monks don't all end up looking the same at any given level. Maybe give them an Enlightened Technique selection at levels 1,5,10,15, and 20 (basically, matching the Wizard bonus feat progression)?

 

[papastebu]

I think it's a neat idea - I'd been thinking about something similar, a way to focus the Monk on Wisdom and reduce some of the MAD problems. I have to agree with Technik4, though, that this ability is front-loaded and therefore just an invitation to 1-level dips from divine casters. How about if we tried to dole these features out over time...something like

Enlightened Techniques
Whenever the Monk gains a level, she designates a type of roll or value selected from the list below. From that point on, her Wisdom bonus is added to that roll or value. The same roll or value can't be chosen more than once.

• Armor Class
• Initiative
• one type of saving throw
• attack rolls with a certain weapon
• damage rolls with a certain weapon
• checks for a chosen skill

I tend to think that's some improvement, but still too fast - pretty much everybody would pick up AC, initiative, all 3 save types, and attack and damage bonuses with their preferred weapon by level 7, then spend any remaining levels picking skills to get bonuses. I'd prefer to slow this down even more, so that Monks don't all end up looking the same at any given level. Maybe give them an Enlightened Technique selection at levels 1,5,10,15, and 20 (basically, matching the Wizard bonus feat progression)?

I like the slowed-down idea better. I had just thought of the cookie-cutterishness of the modification after I posted, yesterday, but couldn't think of anything to do to alleviate it. Maybe don't get rid of the monk's abilities by level, merely make them more related to wisdom. The idea would be to streamline character creation, and possibly gameplay, as well. Also, I think there should be a greater diversity of abilities that a monk character has access to, so that even though the character would be working off the "wisdom modifier as sole bonus" idea, they would still develop differently because of the different choices the players would make.
Please, any suggestions on how to accomplish something cool with this idea would be appreciated.