Monk feats vs. undead

[UltimaGabe]

Be very, very careful with the Book of Exalted Deeds, though. It's got a lot of overpowered stuff. Nothing I immediately noticed as gamebreaking, but a lot of PrCs that are just "you get all the core class goodies, and here's a bunch more, too."

Am I the only one that got the exact same vibe from Libris Mortis?

"Here's a class that's better than the Mystic Theurge- it gives more levels of dual-advancement, better HD, better skills, better saves, AND a bunch of spell-like abilities for the same cost!"

"Here's a feat that lets a 1st-level Cleric deal 1d6 points of damage to all of his enemies at once and gain all of that damage back as Temporary Hit Points!"

You know, things like that.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

No feat outside of the PHB is going to be "balanced" persay. I think a better way of looking at BoED, Libris Mortis, and any other feat book out there, even WOTC's own Complete series, is that these are feats that add extra features to the game. These features could be looked at as power, skills, finesse, or whatever.

You have to be careful what you take from these books, and be prepared to compensate for it every time. If you simply give PC's access to any feat in BoED, and don't erect any kind of solid consequences in the campaign for it, like affecting the PC's personality and behavior, or having mechanical ways of having your NPC's resist or stand up to it, then it gets ridiculous.

Both books tend to give out more "amazing abilities". So you have to look at the feats and decide how "big" you're willing to let things get. If you want to keep the campaign on a lower power, or lower key side, you won't want to allow your players to pick divine warrior templates from BoED, and all that stuff.

And some of the feats do give players a pretty nasty advantage against evil. Esepcially stuff like Nimbus of Light. Not ridiculous, but are you sure you're ready to watch all of your undead zombies take 1d6 positive damage just for being near one of your PC clerics every round?

 

[Bryan898]

If he's worried about grapple, why not just take Close Quarter's Fighting from CW?

 

[Victim]

Doomhunter, slam counts as a natural attack, which means you can use it in a grapple.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it works automatically, like the player seems to fear. In a grapple, the vampire would have to either winning the check or making the attack at -4, so grappling could actually be more effective at preventing energy drain. Of course, Vampires get a big STR bonus, making grappling less feasible.

 

[green slime]

Am I the only one that got the exact same vibe from Libris Mortis?

"Here's a class that's better than the Mystic Theurge- it gives more levels of dual-advancement, better HD, better skills, better saves, AND a bunch of spell-like abilities for the same cost!"

"Here's a feat that lets a 1st-level Cleric deal 1d6 points of damage to all of his enemies at once and gain all of that damage back as Temporary Hit Points!"

You know, things like that.

Actually, I quite dislike this kind of misrepresentation of a book. You should at least give a complete picture, rather than just dismissing it out of hand. Have you read the book?!?

The True Necromancer is not "better", it is different. The Mystic Theurge provides its +1 Arcane caster level/ +1 Divine caster level immediately (earliest 7th character level), which the true necromancer must wait for another two levels! (earliest 9th character level). Furthermore, this delayed gratification occurs again at 6th and 7th class level. (So the MT will be Clr 3/Wiz 3/MT 7 and casting as a 10th Wizard/10th Cleric, the TN will be Clr 3/Wiz 3/TN 7 and casting as.... 8th Cleric/ 8th Wizard....Far behind the straight 13th level Wizard or Cleric....

Better saves?!?!? Better skills?!?!?! What version of the book were you reading? Both the MT and the TN have 2 skill points per level, and only have Will as good saves. What it does receive is d6 hit dice, instead of d4. Probably the only thing it does "better" than the MT.

Profane Lifeleech
Requires the ability to rebuke undead, a standard action, and consumes two rebuking attempts. It can't reduce any creature below 0, and is limited to all living creatures within 30 feet. Including allies. Hit points are gained but cannot exceed your normal hit point total.

Dunno about you, but I don't see that feat as a foregone conclusion for my evil cleric...

Personally, I like Libris Mortis, because there is so much within it that I find useful.

 

[Nail]

Back to the original Post:

Your friend's monk almost assuredly wants Vow of Poverty from the Book of Exalted Deeds. With the Vow the monk will get extra Exalted Feats, which are excellent against all sorts of Evil creatures, including Undead.

BTW: in most campaigns, your friend's worry about grappling vampires is quite.....over-blown. Do you expect wrestling with vampires often? Why? I can count on a beholder's left hand how often I've seen grappling vampires in-game.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

What are some of the feats a MOnk could pick vs undead.

Player is not only afraid of grapple, he is afraid of all undead vs a Monk period. he said quite a bit, I just didnt want to post all of it, but I will add a little more to clarify....He is concerned that ghosts are going to have there way with him. He mentioned ghosts several times, so apparently thats a concern. He's under the impression that vamps are going to be more likely to effect him because he doesnt have armor or spells to protect himself from the undead vamp attack. So it wasnt just grapple it was several concerns, including his lack of ability to cause damage he was worried about.

He has now picked the VoP from BoED, he has about a 40 AC now....pretty hard to hit him and he picked holy ki strike & touch of golden ice, He is going to be a 12th level Monk.....So basically he can hit for 2d6+3(str)+2(VoP)+1(vs evilholy damage)+2d6(holy ki)+touch of golden ice = per hit........he has picked intuitive strike using his wisdom to hit. He put an 18 on wis and VoP added another +4 and 3 level ups, 25 Wis = +7 to hit so his flurry of blows is now 9=7=2=18/18/18/13...I think he is doing better for himself, he should stop whining

But back to my original post what are the feats a monk could select to combat undead more effectively...He has 3 feats left to use.

Thorncrest

 

[green slime]

Three feats left to use?

Iron Will, Ghost Scarred (LM), Vampire Hunter (LM).

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

Where and whats a DoomHunter?

Where would I find it? And what is it?

Thorncrest

Doomhunter, slam counts as a natural attack, which means you can use it in a grapple.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Doomhunter's the guy's name. See post #9.