Monk Full BAB and No Flurry of Blows Penalty

[airwalkrr]

So people often lament that the monk is one of the weakest classes in the core rules and I happen to agree, at least at low levels. I think a lot of the perceived problems would easily be solved with two simple house rules. I'm sure this discussion has been had many times by many players, but perhaps I could get some feedback on how doing similar rules in other games has worked. My plan is two simple house rules.

1) Monks gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with monk weapons at 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th-level as long as they qualify for receiving their Wisdom modifier to AC (what some refer to as being centered). This is essentially the same as giving them an attack bonus equivalent to a class with a good base attack bonus with the exception of granting more attacks.

2) Monks never receive a penalty on flurry of blows starting from 1st-level. After all, is it really that unbalancing to let a 1st-level monk attack twice at no penalty when using a d6 + Str? I am more concerned about higher levels though.

A 20th-level monk would be swinging for 2d10 + Str and get five attacks, which is more attacks than a fighter or barbarian, but the fighter gets weapon specialization and bonus feats to make up for that while the barbarian gets rage. Plus monks have a poor choice of weapons if they want magical weapons and must give up their neck slot if they want an amulet of mighty fists to improve accuracy and damage, which could otherwise be used for Wisdom or Constitution, both of which a monk would love to have.

Anyway, this seems balanced and simple to me. Thoughts?

 

[Dandu]

Should also allow unarmed damage with monk weapons.

 

[kitcik]

AND allow them to select one other weapon to use as a monk weapon and gain proficiency in it for every 5 monk levels or something.

 

[Pergentile]

AND they should be given full arcane and divine spellcasting!

 

[Dandu]

And a familiar. Because we all know that's the most important thing in the game.

 

[kitcik]

But...

But...

I wanted wildshape <sob>


Seriously, though, if you give them everything before the "full spellcasting" post, I think you at least get them up to barbarian level, although still not warblade / swordsage.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

1) Monks gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with monk weapons at 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th-level as long as they qualify for receiving their Wisdom modifier to AC (what some refer to as being centered). This is essentially the same as giving them an attack bonus equivalent to a class with a good base attack bonus with the exception of granting more attacks.

Question: Why don't you want to just flat-out give the monk full BAB?

An attack routine of +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 for 2d10+Str at 20th level isn't going to break anything at all; in fact, it's fairly underwhelming. An archer-spec fighter at 20th can already trivially get the same attack routine with a speed weapon and Improved Rapid Shot, for 1d8+Str damage, and he can easily have higher attack and damage from cheaper magic weapons, the Weapon Spec tree (if he really wants it), and other factors...and that's all at range, so he's not in as much danger as the monk and is almost guaranteed to be able to full attack every round, and there are things like splitting that give him even more attacks, and he has more useful tricks than the monk anyway through all of his feats.

Seriously, full BAB is not this highly coveted prize that must only be handed out sparingly. Any class whose primary schtick boils down to "hit things" should have full BAB, and any rules that try to fake that (like this houserule, or Pathfinder's "uses monk level instead of BAB," or whatever) is going to a lot of trouble to avoid giving iterative attacks for no good reason.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I like number 1. I use it. Number 2 is a decent fix that wouldn't make the monk outrageous either.

But instead of number 2, how about fix the medium-size monk's unarmed strike damage to fit the standard damage progression for size? Certainly not going to make the monk broken at higher levels.

1st 1d6
2nd 1d6
3rd 1d6
4th 1d8
5th 1d8
6th 1d8
7th 1d8
8th 2d6
9th 2d6
10th 2d6
11th 2d6
12th 2d8
13th 2d8
14th 2d8
15th 2d8
16th 3d6
17th 3d6
18th 3d6
19th 3d6
20th 3d8

The thing about flurry at no penalty that would be doable is that to flurry you pretty much need to stand still, and the monk's shtick is to move around the battlefield. The monk doesn't really have the defenses to slug it out long term solo melee, but can help a great deal when working with allies and the monk can slip around to provide some flank bonuses.

So what would make the monk a prime melee master would need to get the monk moving around and getting in its flurry.

 

[Pergentile]

The problem I have with boosting the Monk, Paladin, or other "Mainly Melee" characters is that it makes the fighter less and less appealing except as a couple level dip. Could the Monk easily be made more appealing? Yes. Could one make an awesome monk with RAW without ever coming close to taking a single level in the Monk Class? Yes.
Choose your character, then choose what available tools allow you to make your character.
Do not choose your tools, then base your character off of them.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The problem I have with boosting the Monk, Paladin, or other "Mainly Melee" characters is that it makes the fighter less and less appealing except as a couple level dip.

True, in isolation bumping the monk would make the fighter less appealing. But ideas for the fighter could be another thread. Here is one of Trailblazer's ideas for the fighter, at 1st level all AoOs by the fighter character are +4 to attack and +1d6 to damage, increasing additional +1d6 at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels.

Then give the fighter a choice 2 good saves and 4+ Int skill points.