D&D 5E (2014) Monk proposed "Refocus" class feature

[Gladius Legis]

1) More Ki....just more Ki. Like....just more. Seriously, they burn through Ki so quickly, and without ki they are useless.

This is the main thing. Ki points should've been 10 + half monk level from the start.

 

[clearstream]

This is the main thing. Ki points should've been 10 + half monk level from the start.

So landing in the same place, but a lot more over the relevant levels... not too bad. I definitely feel that the correct approach to addressing ki limits is just plain increase them, rather than creating a class feature or something that restocks them.

I've vacillated over whether to include Refocus in my next campaign. From what I read in this thread I think I'll go ahead with it.

 

[Salthorae]

@Salthorae, I don't see how some of the scenarios you describe would work; though I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on what you're saying you could do. RAW, if you cast a bonus action spell, you cannot cast another bonus action spell, even a cantrip: If you cast a BA spell, you're limited to cantrips with a casting time of one action during that turn. So Sun Soul couldn't cast burning hands twice, and the sorcerer couldn't quicken two spells.

Action surge and this, yes, you could do two regular action spells and two non-spell bonus actions, but not burning hands.

So, 1) I didn't remember that the text under Searing Arc Strike & Way of Four Monks stuff was "cast" and "Spellcasting", so you're right that you couldn't combine those Burning Hands with other BA spells or itself, I just remembered they could do burning hands as a bonus action.

With this you could still attack 4 times with flurry of blows AND do burning hands in the same round though.

When you get into multiclassing, You could cast a bonus action spell or a quickened spell and still get 4 attacks in as well. Action surge and this would allow you to attack 4 times, cast a bonus action spell, and cast a standard spell. Or you could cast 2 standard action spells a quickened spell and dodge/disengage/dash.

A super MAD Fighter/Monk/Sorc combo with twin and quicken could effectively generate 5 spells in a single round AND still get a bonus action to do something else with.

My post even said that something like this wouldn't be super OP, just that it could have some wonky consequences on encounter balance because of breaking action economy, especially when combined with other things that break action economy.

 

[clearstream]

A super MAD Fighter/Monk/Sorc combo with twin and quicken could effectively generate 5 spells in a single round AND still get a bonus action to do something else with.

That sounds pretty cool

My post even said that something like this wouldn't be super OP, just that it could have some wonky consequences on encounter balance because of breaking action economy, especially when combined with other things that break action economy.

I know. I think you raise reasonable points. It's not my aim to power-creep, only to offer monks (and monk-multiclasses) the ability to play more creatively by alleviating some of their present bonus action contention.

 

[Salthorae]

That sounds pretty cool

It does. It's pretty nova.

'Would it outshine other characters who weren't this "optimized"?' I think is the question I'd ask myself.

Probably not. Throw it out there and see how it goes in actual gameplay. Let us know how it works.

Personally I'd rather just have more ki points

 

[Esker]

With this you could still attack 4 times with flurry of blows AND do burning hands in the same round though.

True. Though a sorcerer/fighter could do the same thing with quicken burning hands + action surge + extra attack. Granted that's a multiclass build vs a single class monk, but it's a single class monk that just isn't very good otherwise.

When you get into multiclassing, You could cast a bonus action spell or a quickened spell and still get 4 attacks in as well.

Yes, though again, you don't need monk to do this. Sorcerer + Action Surge gets you this already

Action surge and this would allow you to attack 4 times, cast a bonus action spell, and cast a standard spell.

This is more powerful, but requires 2 ki points, 2 SP and action surge, and a level 10 character with at the bare minimum, with a caster level of only 3. At level 10 as a Monk 5 / Sorcerer 3 / Fighter 2, you're spending 2/3 of your daily SP, your one action surge / SR, your one bonus bonus action / SR, and both your highest level spell slots to do something like 10d6+2d10+16 damage on hits (assuming a scorching ray, a firebolt, and four punches). Figure a 60% chance to hit, that's about 37 damage total, possibly with some conditions inflicted if you spend more ki. That's roughly on par with what Animate Objects can do every round with a bonus action at that level. The fact that to get this you're restricting yourself to 2nd level spells at level 10 is a big factor.

Or you could cast 2 standard action spells a quickened spell and dodge/disengage/dash.

I doubt anyone is going to complain about somebody getting a free dodge/disengage/dash once per short rest.

A super MAD Fighter/Monk/Sorc combo with twin and quicken could effectively generate 5 spells in a single round AND still get a bonus action to do something else with.

Yes, but four of them have to be cantrips, and the other one is 2nd level max, unless we're going to even higher levels. And the bonus action is the only new part here. So a lot turns on how powerful that thing is. What bonus action options would you have with that build? Other than dodge/disengage/dash for more ki?

My post even said that something like this wouldn't be super OP, just that it could have some wonky consequences on encounter balance because of breaking action economy, especially when combined with other things that break action economy.

There might be some combos I'm not thinking of, but that's what this thread is for, right? Can you come up with any that are beyond what a character can normally do at a corresponding level? And if they're not beyond, are they sufficiently close that you'd argue that getting to do it on top of other things that build can do makes it OP at all even?

 

[Esker]

I know. I think you raise reasonable points. It's not my aim to power-creep, only to offer monks (and monk-multiclasses) the ability to play more creatively by alleviating some of their present bonus action contention.

The monk needs a little power-creep, let's be honest. Nobody plays a monk to powergame.

 

[clearstream]

Personally I'd rather just have more ki points

I'm afraid that if you take Refocus, you aren't allowed more ki points.

 

[Stalker0]

The monk needs a little power-creep, let's be honest. Nobody plays a monk to powergame.

not since the days of vow of poverty + touch of golden ice. Ah the days when monks had broken builds

 

[Stalker0]

Is there a way to make that also interesting for multiclass characters? One thing I like with my version (aside from simplicity, so I guess that's two things I like) is that it can be used to creatively multiclass.

I thought your original version was fine. This idea was more for people who specifically had multi class concerns.