monk question

[fl8m]

if a creature has natural attacks (claws, teeth) and monk levels can it use it's better attack progression and damage from it's monk levels?

 

[Sejs]

Yes.

 

[Bauglir]

yep - monk attacks use 'the whole body' and not just the appendages so it's doable

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd say no. Having claws is like having a weapon, not an unarmed strike. Using claws means being reliant on those claws to do damage, in that every attack must be with the claws. An foe can defend against the claws, just as he'd defend against a sword.

A monk's unarmed strike takes advantage of a variety of strikes to gain the improved attack rate. If there's an opening for a punch, he punches, if there's an opening for a head-butt, he head-butts.

Claws are not monk weapons. Nor is a bite. Though if I had a monk PC with this problem, I'd be willing to create a feat that allowed a claw attack as a monk weapon.

 

[Sejs]

I'd say no. Having claws is like having a weapon, not an unarmed strike. Using claws means being reliant on those claws to do damage, in that every attack must be with the claws. An foe can defend against the claws, just as he'd defend against a sword.

Just because you have natural weaponry doesn't mean you have to use it, however. Look at cats, for example. Cats have claws, but alot of the time when attacking a mouse or a mole or whatever, they'll just slap it around and beat it up rather than shread it appart. The monk with natural weapons would do it's monk unarmed damage at it's monk unarmed BA and could use flurry, etc -OR- it could use it's natural weaponry at the normal monk BA, not flurry, etc.

Claws are not monk weapons. Nor is a bite. Though if I had a monk PC with this problem, I'd be willing to create a feat that allowed a claw attack as a monk weapon.

*nod* That's a good idea - sorta like the Unorthodox Flurry feat from dragon magazine that was published a while back. Take a feat, bam, your natural weapons are considdered special monk weapons just like the kama, nunchaku, etc.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just because you have natural weaponry doesn't mean you have to use it, however. Look at cats, for example. Cats have claws, but alot of the time when attacking a mouse or a mole or whatever, they'll just slap it around and beat it up rather than shread it appart. The monk with natural weapons would do it's monk unarmed damage at it's monk unarmed BA and could use flurry, etc -OR- it could use it's natural weaponry at the normal monk BA, not flurry, etc.

You're absolutely right. What I meant to say was that a monk cannot use the claws with the better unarmed attack progression (as the original poster wanted). Certainly, the monk can choose not to use his claws and simply go with unarmed strikes and his monk damage and progression.