Monks belt and the nasty sorcerer...

[Cephid]

Please help:
Can a sorcerer take Improved unarmed strike, then Aesthetic mage and use a monks belt to get a monk AC bonus based on his Cha?

(I REALLY want to avoid losing a caster level by taking a level of monk.)

I read somewhere this was possible, but I am a little doubtful.

(A 'Yes' is what I'm looking for)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Thanee]

If you don't have monk levels there is no stacking.

And it's doubtful and often hotly debated, that the monk's belt even grants the Wis bonus to AC. The Ascetic Mage feat description also seperates the two. IMHO the AC bonus is only the one derived from level (but it's unclear since the term 'AC bonus' is used on multiple places in different ways in the monk description).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

A little more detail on the second part:

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

There are two bonuses to AC here, one is the Wis bonus, the other one is the bonus derived from class level.

Some say, that the monk's belt 'AC bonus' refers to the extraordinary ability 'AC bonus'.

Others say, and that's what I also think, that the monk's belt 'AC bonus' only refers to one of the two AC bonuses mentioned in the class ability, the one derived from class level (obviously, if it is only one of them, it can only really be this one), which is also the one titled 'AC bonus' in the monk class table.

Looking at it from a balance perspective should make obvious, that the second one can only be meant there, the belt would be way underpriced otherwise (the AC bonus is worth 2,500gp x bonus²). And it also grants a much better unarmed damage (1d8 instead of 1d3) in addition to the AC bonus (that's three feats (Improved Natural Attack) worth of damage bonus!).

Bye
Thanee

 

[The Forsaken One]

Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

You recieve the bonus AC a monk would have gained when he was a level 5 monk. This not include the Wisdom to AC but the extra bonus AC a monk gains.

So I'm afraid I have to disappoint you and inform you that your idea is not going to work out if its played by the current rules of that item. Im not familiar with that other feat though and what it does so if you would post it, would be cool so we might still find a way to get you where you wanna be .

(Else just make a 4rth level abjuration spell or transmutation spell that grants you your int or cha or whatever suits you in the spelldescription as deflection bonus to AC for 1 hour / level. I did it with my wizard that im currently playing and its working out fine.

Cercei’s Thought Shield
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Self
Effect: Deflection bonus to armor class
Duration: 1 hour /level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This spell grants a deflection bonus to armor class equal to the casters intelligence bonus.

And you could remake it to..

Cercei's Force of Personality
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Self
Effect: Deflection bonus to armor class
Duration: 1 hour /level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This spell grants a deflection bonus to armor class equal to the casters charisma bonus.

Or rename it to "insert your chars name here" force of personality as creator of the spell. Saves you cash and a feat. Only 2 drawbacks are dispellable and costs you a 4rth level spell per day.

[EDIT: Points upwards at thanees post who beat me to it Starting to sound like Wizardru here rofl. ]

 

[moritheil]

FWIW, IMC I equip intelligent monsters using a portion of their own loot. If any of you DMs out there encounter a player that repeatedly insists the monk's belt adds wis to AC, ask them if they would mind seeing a lot of outsiders gain +9 or 10 to AC (including touch AC) due to having a wisdom near 30.

I did this with my players - if they didn't mind, I wouldn't mind either. Sanity prevailed.

 

[Cephid]

ok guys. Thanks alot. That is kind of what I expected.

I'm still tossing up if it's worth a level of monk or not...

 

[Thanee]

Losing one level of spellcasting definitely hurts, but one level is still bearable. The advantage the one level of monk grants you is pretty good, with a +7 or more to AC, better saves and some decent skills to start out with, also the Improved Grapple (for Polymorphing goodness).

It's a fair compromise. You give up a lot, but you also gain a lot.

At that point it's mostly a question of whether it's fitting the character or your playing style.

Bye
Thanee

 

[brehobit]

Some say, that the monk's belt 'AC bonus' refers to the extraordinary ability 'AC bonus'.

Which seems sorta reasonable really.

Others say, and that's what I also think, that the monk's belt 'AC bonus' only refers to one of the two AC bonuses mentioned in the class ability, the one derived from class level (obviously, if it is only one of them, it can only really be this one), which is also the one titled 'AC bonus' in the monk class table.

Looking at it from a balance perspective should make obvious, that the second one can only be meant there, the belt would be way underpriced otherwise (the AC bonus is worth 2,500gp x bonus²). And it also grants a much better unarmed damage (1d8 instead of 1d3) in addition to the AC bonus (that's three feats (Improved Natural Attack) worth of damage bonus!).

I'll disagree with this. The unarmed damage _is_ really nice. But frankly three improved natural attacks in this case gets you up to sword damage. Nothing unbalancing there. The armor bonus only applies when you are unarmored. I'd call that a huge limitation. This means that core PCs will generally get very little out of it. (What core class has a high wisdom and will not be wearing armor?) For non-core classes things are different, but even so we are talking about emulating a class ability of a 1st level monk (ok 5th level, but the 1st level ability is the one we are debating).

It is balanced? For all but a handful of characters, yes. For high-level characters with a high wisdom and no or light armor, the belt is a must-have. But I can't say I've ever seen such a character that wasn't a monk...

I'd claim that only giving one part of the AC bonus is a house rule. Not an unreasonable one, but a house rule non-the-less.

 

[brehobit]

Please help:
Can a sorcerer take Improved unarmed strike, then Aesthetic mage and use a monks belt to get a monk AC bonus based on his Cha?

(I REALLY want to avoid losing a caster level by taking a level of monk.)

I read somewhere this was possible, but I am a little doubtful.

(A 'Yes' is what I'm looking for)

Thanks in advance.

One other option, if you DM allows it, is taking a level of Battle Dancer from the Dragon Compendium. Saves you a feat. You get poorer saves, but a +1 BAB. A few other differences too (no flurry for example).

Mark

 

[Corsair]

Honestly using the monk's belt to refer to the AC Bonus (Ex) is only really powerful for those with high wisdoms (clerics and druids). Since clerics suffer no penalty in armor, unless playing a high dex archer cleric, it's cheaper to just get +1 full plate. So really the only one who gets any bonus is the druid, and even then only really if he takes off the belt, wildshapes, and has someone put it back on him afterwards.

All in all its a good item. Probably a little on the cheap side, but again it is only useful for a few classes.

I'm not sure if it would count for your specific trick you're trying to use though.