Monks, flurry, and weapon finesse

[Hypersmurf]

If you restrict it to TWF and PA, how does it apply to disarm and sunder? Also, I don't know what you mean to imply by "Disarm and Sunder checks with both ends...."

A two-handed weapon gets a +4 bonus to Disarm and Sunder checks. A light weapon gets a -4 penalty to Disarm and Sunder checks. This is not a penalty related to two-weapon fighting, nor is it related to Power Attack.

So, if fighting with both ends of a double weapon means treating it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon, then when you attempt to disarm someone with one end, you get no bonus, and with the other end, you take a -4 penalty.

If it means treating it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon for purposes of penalties related to two-weapon fighting and of the Power Attack feat, then when you attempt to disarm someone with one end, you get a +4 bonus, and with the other end, you also get a +4 bonus... because a quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon.

An attack with a two-handed weapon adds 1.5x Str bonus to damage. An off-hand attack adds .5x Str bonus to damage. This is not a penalty related to two-weapon fighting, nor is it related to Power Attack.

So, if fighting with both ends of a double weapon means treating it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon, then when you attack with one end, you add Str bonus to damage, and with the other end, making an off-hand attack, you add .5x Str bonus to damage.

If it means treating it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon for purposes of penalties related to two-weapon fighting and of the Power Attack feat, then when you attack with one end, you add 1.5x Str bonus to damage (because a quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon), and with the other end, making an off-hand attack, you add .5x Str bonus to damage. Assuming that the 'off-hand attack' rule takes precedence over the 'two-handed weapon' rule, naturally, otherwise it's 1.5x with both ends.

I'm not a big fan of reading text in an obscure place as a general rule for other areas...

But it isn't unprecedented... see Crossbow, Heavy, 3E PHB p100

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, if fighting with both ends of a double weapon means treating it as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon, then when you attempt to disarm someone with one end, you get no bonus, and with the other end, you take a -4 penalty.

Oh, duh, you mean when the wielder of the double weapon is doing the disarming/sundering.

But it isn't unprecedented... see Crossbow, Heavy, 3E PHB p100

-Hyp.

But then do a poll and see how many people like rules written like that out of the proper location.

 

[JimAde]

I have a gun and I'm taking this bus to Cuba!

This may be the most seriously hijacked thread I've ever seen. Well done.

 

[Ranger REG]

Although there's argument about the off-end when using it as a double weapon.

Yeah, because you keep bringing it up.

 

[silvertable81]

Monks can use weapon finesse with their unarmed flurry. Can they use weapon finesse with other weapons with which they can flurry?

Uhm, I'm not sure, but you're not thinking they get this as a bonus feat are you?

 

[Herobizkit]

I think I know what you're trying to accomplish... becoming a decent disarm/sunder monkey.

I wouldn't say it's the best Sunder way, but if you want to be a disarm monkey, take TWF/ITWF, Weapon Finesse, and Improved Disarm, and fight with a pair of (at least) masterwork sai.

* The sai gets a +4 to the disarm check, which counters their penalty for size.
* Improved Disarm gives you +4 to disarm and no chance to be counter-disarmed.
* Masterwork weapon gives you a +1 to hit, plus your Dex bonus would add to your to hit bonus (assuming you're more a Dex than a Str fighter)
* Once you get 2 attacks/round with your unarmed attack, you can flurry with your sai for a third...
* ... and then get two extra attacks with your off-hand weapon.

So, on a full attack, you'd get 5 chances to disarm a round with no penalty for doing so.

IIRC, there is also a feat from the Arcana Unearthed book (by Monte Cook) Eberron campaign setting which is called "Whirling Steel Strike"... it essentially allows you to use a two-bladed sword as a special Monk weapon. There's your Sunder weapon.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

IIRC, there is also a feat from the Arcana Unearthed book (by Monte Cook) which is called "Whirling Steel Strike"... it essentially allows you to use a two-bladed sword as a special Monk weapon. There's your Sunder weapon.

Whirling Steel Strike is from the Eberron Campaign Setting, I think - along with similar feats for longspear, longsword, and ... one other, I think.