monster AB - how/where?

[castlewalls]

Could someone please explain how monster types fight? I can't find any Base Attack numbers anywhere except for page 13 in the MM. It gives "Attack Bonus: Total HD (as type) but doesn't explain how to read the creatures HD number.
For example: The Ankeg - HD=3d10+9 - what particular number would I use as the AB to add to the D20 roll? 3? 10? 30? 39?
Please help!!! -Jim

 

[Sixten]

First of all, each individual entry in the MM (or the SRD, or whatever book you're looking at) should list the AB for each attach available to the critter. If you look down the stats, you'll see a line that looks like (for the ankheg in this case):

Attacks: Bite +6 melee

This means that the ankheg has a single bite attack with an AB of +6.

Where does this number come from? Well, the ankheg is a 3 HD Beast (disregard any bonus HP, and just look at the dice; the ankheg rolls 3d10, so it has 3 Hit Dice). It also has a Strength of 21, or a +5 Str bonus. It's size is Large, which gives it -1 AC and -1 AB.

Looking at the table of type information, we see that Beasts have an Attack Bonus equal to 3/4 HD (like a Cleric). 3/4 of 3 (rounding down) is 2. Adding in the Str bonus, and size penalty, we get a total AB of +4.

 

[castlewalls]

First of all, each individual entry in the MM (or the SRD, or whatever book you're looking at) should list the AB for each attach available to the critter. If you look down the stats, you'll see a line that looks like (for the ankheg in this case):

Attacks: Bite +6 melee

This means that the ankheg has a single bite attack with an AB of +6.

Where does this number come from? Well, the ankheg is a 3 HD Beast (disregard any bonus HP, and just look at the dice; the ankheg rolls 3d10, so it has 3 Hit Dice). It also has a Strength of 21, or a +5 Str bonus. It's size is Large, which gives it -1 AC and -1 AB.

Looking at the table of type information, we see that Beasts have an Attack Bonus equal to 3/4 HD (like a Cleric). 3/4 of 3 (rounding down) is 2. Adding in the Str bonus, and size penalty, we get a total AB of +4.

Sorry, still a bit lost here. I understand now about the +6 AB (roll the D20 & add 6...) but where does the STR bonus come in? Do you add it to the D20 roll too? The HD# as well? (this would make it AB 14-1 because of the size...).
I don't understand where you get the +4 when it says the melee attack is +6...

 

[Sixten]

The Strength modifier is part of the creature's AB, just like it is for any Player Character or NPC. So it works out like this:

Attack Bonus
= Base Attack Bonus + modifiers
= (3/4 HD) + (Str mod) + (size mod)
= (+2) + (+4) + (-1)
= +6

If the creature had Weapon Finesse, then you'd use its Dex mod instead of Str, just like a PC. One of the really nice things about 3E is that characters and monsters work pretty much exactly the same way under the rules.

 

[castlewalls]

aha!

Aha! Mind expands with knowledge, blows up, makes mess.....
Now if they only made proper wilderness charts.....
Thanks, -Jim

 

[castlewalls]

sorry

I thought I had it but,...
i still can't get it down, it seems like the HD level doesn't apply in combat. It seems stupid to have to deal with all these numbers just to figure out what a random encountered monster can do.

I guess I'm just confused on how the HD is involved with the attack ability. How to just open the MM & start using a monster without generating paperwork first. It looks to me like monster's with the same attacking value (melee +#) is the same as any other, HD is just there to detemine how many HP's it has before it dies. A small monster with a +4 atk melee value is just the same as a larger one with the same atk value - no difference in challenge...!

 

[Sixten]

The best analogy is probably to think of a monster's Hit Dice as being like its level. So -- in very general terms -- a 3HD creature is like a "third-level" creature.

Like PCs, a creature's "level" doesn't have any direct effect on combat. But its Hit Dice determine its BAB, its hit points, how many skill points and feats it has, etc.

So, like I said earlier, the Attack Bonus is based on HD. But the MM includes the pre-calculated AB for every creature it contains, which is the only number you really need. Likewise, it lists average hit points, so you don't have to roll for them if you don't want to. Those are the basic things (along with movement rate and damage) you need to run a combat with that creature.

Same as a PC. A 3rd level Fighter has a BAB of +3. But once you know that, his level is not really important to running the combat.

And, yes, two creatures with the same AB have the same chance to hit against the same target. But AB alone does not a monster make.

 

[Wolf72]

*wolf points up* what he said ...

HD are levels ... giant with 15 HD has the same Base attack bonus as a 15th lvl cleric (3/4) ...

so when using a weapon or improved unarmed strike that giant would have the iterive attacks of +10/+5 ... then add in your strength and other bonuses (such as MW, size, magic)

that's all there is to it ... it would be nice if they broke it down like the did for AC though.

 

[Ferret]

(2)+(4)+(-1)= +6?What? Thats 5. A 13 year old knows that. I should know.

 

[Grazzt]

Could someone please explain how monster types fight? I can't find any Base Attack numbers anywhere except for page 13 in the MM. It gives "Attack Bonus: Total HD (as type) but doesn't explain how to read the creatures HD number.
For example: The Ankeg - HD=3d10+9 - what particular number would I use as the AB to add to the D20 roll? 3? 10? 30? 39?
Please help!!! -Jim

The easiest way to explain it is this.

Look at the Attack line for a monster. That is its total attack bonus. This is what you use when a monster enters combat. It includes its BAB and all modifiers for Strength, size, magical adjustments (such as those from a magic weapon if the monster so wields one).

So- you simply roll a 1d20 and add the number found on the "Attacks" line and you are good to go.

Now- if you really want to know a monster's base attack bonus (without any modifiers added to it), there are two ways to figure it out:

1- Look on page 13 in the MM and find the creature's Type. Then look for the "Attack Bonus" entry. That tells you how to figure it out. For example, if the entry says "Total HD (as fighter) it means the monster's base attack bonus is equal to its HD. So, a 6 HD monster has a BAB of +6. A 12 HD monster has a BAB of +12. If the entry says "HD x 3/4 (as cleric) for example, you can either multiply the monster's HD by 3/4 to find its BAB or you can refer to the PHB cleric advancement table (since the entry says "as cleric") and find the monster's total HD (or level) on that table. That gives you the same BAB as if you multiplied its HD by 3/4.

2- The other way to find a monster's BAB is to reverse engineer the total attack bonus listed in the monster's "Attacks" line. For example, if it says +6 and the monster has Str 14 then you know at least +2 of that attack bonus is from Str. So, subtract that. Then check the creature's size and subtract (or add) any modifiers from the total for size. Eventually you will find its BAB.

Since, you seem to be having a little trouble figuring it out, I would go with option 1. It is easier.