Monster attack bonus and mutiple attacks?? UPDATED 9/19

[Artoomis]

Here's the situation:

Monster has BAB 20 + str bonus of +4.

Monster has multiple natural attacks AND has a greatsword (has fours arms, each with a claw attack, plus bite, plus constriction.

Monster has:

MULTIATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.
Benefit: The creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, the creature’s secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

What's his full attack?

Is it a choice of :

Greatsword +24/+19/+14/+9

or

Greatsword +24 (+3 magic), 2 claws +22, 1 bite +22, 1 constriction +22 ?

Now let's say we lose the greatsword. (two more claws).

Does it become:

4 claws +24, 1 bite +22, 1 constriction +22?

I'm trying to fix up some converted monster from an old module (Dark Tower) that was poorly converted to 3e.

This is for the final big battle, and I'm trying to do things per the rules to be fair. The battle will be tough enough wihout me trying to make decisions on the fly which might not be so good for the PCs, and I'm trying to make the battle flow without me having to look up rules as we go. I am spending extra time preparing for this one!

Wyckedemus, I know you'll see this, and that's why I've kept this generic. Your input is welcome, too.

 

[DM2]

I think you have it right on the full attack without greatsword. The claws are primary, and the rest are secondary, as you demonstrated.

When fitting in the greatsword you are also right in that it takes up 2 claw attacks, and becomes the primary attack, with the rest of the claw attacks and all other attacks being secondary now, as you have shown.

This is consistent with the examples for the Werebear in hybrid form in the monster manual, for instance, where he replaces a single claw attack in his full attack sequence with an attack with an undersized greatsword, and his other claw attack becomes secondary.

I've also seen examples where creatures using weapons apply their BAB to armed attacks, with a bite as a secondary attack regardless of the fact they are doing that...might want to look for that, as I don't remember where it was.

DM2

 

[AGGEMAM]

A greatsword is not a two-handed weapon. It is actually an all-handed weapon. This is in the FAQ.

 

[DM2]

Minotaur is an example. Their full attack block in the monster manual reads as follows:

Full Attack: Greataxe +9/+4 melee (3d6+6/x3) and gore +4 melee (1d8+2)

Iterative attacks with the greataxe, plus a secondary attack with the horns.

Anyone else think "Greatsword +24/+19/+14/+9 and [bite or constriction] +22" is an option for this guy's full attack?

 

[Artoomis]

A greatsword is not a two-handed weapon. It is actually an all-handed weapon. This is in the FAQ.

Really?

First, that does not make sense.

Second, I can't find it in any version of the FAQ. Where is it? I'd like to review that entry in the FAQ.

 

[Artoomis]

Minotaur is an example. Their full attack block in the monster manual reads as follows:



Iterative attacks with the greataxe, plus a secondary attack with the horns.

Anyone else think "Greatsword +24/+19/+14/+9 and [bite or constriction] +22" is an option for this guy's full attack?

Ooohhhh....

But, in that case, wouldn't he get ALL his natural attacks? That is, 2 claws, bite plus constrict?

Ohhhhh - very nasty. My players may not appreciate my research!!

 

[DM2]

Ooohhhh....

But, in that case, wouldn't he get ALL his natural attacks? That is, 2 claws, bite plus constrict?

Ohhhhh - very nasty. My players may not appreciate my research!!

Hey, I just pointed out an example...maybe the minotaur is an exception of some kind Maybe WotC isn't following any nice formulas for deciding when they can toss in secondary attacks or not.

Don't go sicking your players on me after your super-multi-attacking creature takes em out. he he

Your players aren't in the Dallas area, right? good

DM2

 

[AGGEMAM]

Actually, I can't find it, right now. And the only example I recall is the mantis-looking creature, Thri-kreen?

Basically, the primary attacks (claws etc) are all used up by a two/all-handed weapon.

Secondary attacks are not affected.

So your creature attacks like this:

Greatsword +24/+19/+14/+9 and 1 bite +22 and 1 constriction +22

OR

4 Claws +24 and bite +22 and constriction +22


EDIT: Actually the numbers did check out. So this is how it is done.

 

[Artoomis]

Hey, I just pointed out an example...maybe the minotaur is an exception of some kind Maybe WotC isn't following any nice formulas for deciding when they can toss in secondary attacks or not.

Don't go sicking your players on me after your super-multi-attacking creature takes em out. he he

Your players aren't in the Dallas area, right? good

DM2

Not to worry!

(a) My player's are in Redmond, WA. AFAIK, only one of them regularly reads this forum. The threat is at least remote!

(b) It's not the massive attacks they really need to worry about anyway. Muah-Ha-Ha!! Sorry, but I can't say anything else about that after we have our game on Thursday night.

 

[DM2]

Ok, you have to let us know though...or do you have a story hour where it will appear?