Monster design and expected bonus to hit...

[Primitive Screwhead]

I am working on converting an encounter for some 15th level PCs and have a question.

A 'core' 17th level Skirmisher has a +21 vs AC basic attack.
The parties ACs range from about 26 {Striker} to 31 {tank}, meaning this critter has at worst a 50% chance to hit.

Toss in an expected Combat advantage and this ups to 60%.. and a measly 15% chance to miss the Striker.

This doesn't feel right, so I thought I would check with y'all smart folks. Is that right?

If not, Has anyone done the math to come up with 'standard' to hit bonuses for critters?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mengu]

Monster attack bonus (per DMG) is:

Brute: Level+3
Skirmisher/Lurker/Controller: Level+5
Soldier/Artillery: Level+7

No, I don't think these are too high. In your case though, I'd re-examine the AC's in the group. They seem to be on the low side, though still within reason if tank is a part time striker build, and striker is a back liner.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I´d rather had a 2 point lower to hit chance of monsters with a bit higher damage.

This would make better use of the d20 as you are in the 40%-60% range.

 

[bganon]

A monster two levels above the party generally is going to hit them fairly often.

And why do you expect it to have CA? 15th level PCs should have a variety of ways to avoid being flanked.

Also, a wizard with no armor feats, in +3 cloth, wlll have AC 26 at 15th level. Sure, wizards have decent AC in 4e, but clearly your striker is not prioritizing AC very much. If they've made a choice to have low AC, then you shouldn't feel too bad about hitting them a lot.

 

[fba827]

also pcs could get stuff like cover, concealment (and higher) from a variety of terrain and powers. (not to mention power bonuses).

 

[mkill]

A 'core' 17th level Skirmisher has a +21 vs AC basic attack. The parties ACs range from about 26 {Striker} to 31 {tank}, meaning this critter has at worst a 50% chance to hit.

Those AC values are very low. Can we see the builds please? Either you plain miscalculated, or you forgot the starting magic equipment, or masterwork armor, or the PCs aren't built very well.

My Paladin had 31 AC at 11th level already (plate + shield + feat). Granted, that's on the high end for a defender, but it shouldn't be much lower. Defenders should be between 16+level and 20+level, so at 17th level that's 33 - 37.

Strikers can survive with a low AC, if they stay out of melee. If not, though, you're dead quickly.

 

[Hejdun]

A 15th level defender with a shield should have an AC of at least:
10
+ 7 for 1/2 lvl
+ 3 enhancement
+ 10 masterwork scale
+ 2 heavy shield
__________
32

Reasonably you can add +2 from more magical armor and masterwork bonus, +1 feat, +1 plate. You should also have some ways to consistently get some conditional bonuses to AC through items of powers. In this case, the defender with a 31 AC seems slightly low.

However, in general, monsters typically have a very high chance to hit PCs regardless of level. Average hit rates of over 60% are the rule rather than the exception.

 

[Aulirophile]

If you have the charbuilder files for their characters I'd really like to see them.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The striker build is, um... mine. I am away from the campaign and helping my co-dm prep for the adventure. Ranged striker with no intent on getting into melee combat or staying there for long if dragged into it, so I agree his melee AC was not a priority on the build. His cloak of concealment and longbow range usually keeps him out of trouble.

The Tank is a Paladin whose player is new to 4e, and I wasn't really looking to closely at the build. Just checking I see that (a) his feats are augmenting his anti-undead powers to target demons, devils, outsiders, and elementals... and (b) his Heavy Shield is not equiped

The encounter is on a swaying rope bridge, which is taking the slot of one of the critters in the encounter as it impacts the combat significantly. Can't say too much as some of the players lurk here, but the end result is Combat Advantage!


So far, its looking like the monster builds are on target but since the party generally has not focused on AC the options are to allow them to feel the pain for that choice or drop the critters attacks by 2 points, setting the range more freindly for the parties choice of builds.
Hmm, I think I will wait a bit longer for more opinions before finalizing the encounter build.
Thanks!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hmmh, seems i am the only one not liking those high to hit bonuses on monsters.

Of course i would have liked slightly lower bonuses with increased damage output/lower PC hp. A bit more swingyness is fun in my book.

Of course within the math of this game, higher hit chance with lower damage is fine.