Monster Design--from a designer's standpoint

[Lizard]

Well, -8 is pretty big penalty to an attack role, and I'm assuming that you'd put some sort of tanking creature between the ranged attack guys and the PCs. Even assuming that this energy only requires a touch attack, without the basic archery feats, its gonna miss a lot.

Why -8? Did I miss something?

Genericus Skeletonus has a 13 Dex and a BAB of 0, for a +1 ranged modifier. Assume this ability is on a more powerful skeleton -- 4 HD. That gives it a +2 BAB and +1 for dex for a +3 -- not the greatest in the world, but reasonable for a CR 2 or so creature.

 

[malraux]

Why -8? Did I miss something?

Genericus Skeletonus has a 13 Dex and a BAB of 0, for a +1 ranged modifier. Assume this ability is on a more powerful skeleton -- 4 HD. That gives it a +2 BAB and +1 for dex for a +3 -- not the greatest in the world, but reasonable for a CR 2 or so creature.

Firing into combat is a -4. And generally if you are firing into melee, you're gonna have an ally in between you and the target. Therefore your target will also have soft cover for another -4 (ok, technically its an AC boost to the target, but same difference). So total, its -8 to attack without PS and PBS. Obviously this is the modifier to whatever the monster's ranged attack bonus is. But its a big penalty regardless.

 

[Puggins]

The bonesnapper really got me thinking about mechanics. About what we can and cant do. 3E was all about what you cant do. I think 4E will be about what you can do.

For instance. I want the bonesnapper bite to cause a slow effect on a crit, simulating that he broke a leg or arm with his bite. Here is where the mechanic comes in--I dont want it to end on a successful save. I want to say "until healed". Healing surge, magic, whatever. But a save alone isnt enough to overcome the effect. Now, in 3E that type of deviation from a rigid mechanic would get you burned at the stake. For 4E, it just might work. Still, we'll have to see.

Ooooh, nasty...

m Bite
+9 vs AC, damage 1d10+4 (1d10+14 crit) plus Break Bones on a critical to an opponent already bloodied.

m Break Bones
+9 vs. Fortitude
hit: victim is slowed until long term rest.
miss: victim is slowed. (save ends)

Sorta breaks the "long term damage doesn't exist" pseudo-meme, but who cares? Nobody would want to mix it up with these guys in melee... And imagine having to pull along a wounded party member as you evacuate the dungeon to heal his leg as the rest of the denizens nip at your heels....

 

[Lizard]

I'm running the Savage Tides adventure path... let me tell you about ninja dinosaurs! Why does a baby Diplodocus have a +9 Reflex save?!? Oh yeah, 16 HD...

PS

Yeah, in 4e, it will only have a +*8* Reflex save (Save=1/2 level)

I'm sure glad THAT was fixed! Wow! That's an amazing difference, and it's going to totally change the way the game works for me! Damn! How did we live so long without this? Boy, now I know 3e was t3h suxx0r!

(It's also going to have a +8 Acrobatics check, +8 Stealth, and +8 Diplomacy...it's not just a ninja dinosaur, it's a ninja dinosaur that can con your shirt off! Smell the realism!)

You may detect just the slightest hint of sarcasm. The slightest. A hint.

 

[Cadfan]

I never thought of it as 'needed to' -- it could just have a normal ranged attack. Give it a high dex score or something. What was nice,to me, was that you could add feats and know they'd work properly.

I just didn't like the unexpected consequences. Things like adjusting ability scores to fix issues that cropped up due to hit die and attack bonus and default saves often had ripple effects which required adjustments on other portions of the monster. You could always get where you were going in the end (that's what racial bonuses on monsters are for) but it was a hassle.

I eventually stopped statting up enemies, and just started creating shells. If an enemy became relevant in some way other than what I'd put in my shell, I ad libbed, and if the enemy was going to recur in a later campaign session, THEN I statted him up.

 

[Cadfan]

Blah, blah, blah, sarcasm.

What makes you think the baby dinosaur will be a level 16 player character?

 

[Knight Otu]

What makes you think the baby dinosaur will be a level 16 player character?

The half-level bonus applies to monsters as well. Now, the baby dinosaur might not be a 16th level standard monster, but a lower-level elite or solo, but those seem to get other bonuses as well. It probably has pretty low Int, Dex, and Cha, though.

 

[Lizard]

What makes you think the baby dinosaur will be a level 16 player character?

EVERYTHING gets +1/2 level. That's "the math".

Look at the various monster stats we've seen so far.

If I'm wrong, I missed something somewhere. Point it out to me, please.

 

[Kraydak]

Firing into combat is a -4. And generally if you are firing into melee, you're gonna have an ally in between you and the target. Therefore your target will also have soft cover for another -4 (ok, technically its an AC boost to the target, but same difference). So total, its -8 to attack without PS and PBS. Obviously this is the modifier to whatever the monster's ranged attack bonus is. But its a big penalty regardless.

And guess what? That big penalty is a hidden hand to protect the DM! Low level (3e) characters are very fragile, and hence extremely vulnerable to focused fire. Melee types have a hard time focussing fire, but ranged combatants do it casually. Therefore it helps if (at low levels) ranged combatants have to choose between heftily penalized focused fire and accurate, distributed opportunity fire.

Wow, the prerequisite system works to avoid giving monsters abilities too early. Shocker. And there are even ways around that if you really want the ability too (bonus feats, fighter levels). It's a miracle!

Ok, that last is going a bit far, and the prerequisite system doesn't always work as well as it does in this case. Oh weapon finesse, how I hate your +1 BaB requirement. Still, complaining about abilities having prerequisites in a system that lets you bypass those prereqs if you really really want to and are willing to risk the abilities being overpowered for their new level is... foolish.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yeah, in 4e, it will only have a +*8* Reflex save (Save=1/2 level)

I'm sure glad THAT was fixed! Wow! That's an amazing difference, and it's going to totally change the way the game works for me! Damn! How did we live so long without this? Boy, now I know 3e was t3h suxx0r!

(It's also going to have a +8 Acrobatics check, +8 Stealth, and +8 Diplomacy...it's not just a ninja dinosaur, it's a ninja dinosaur that can con your shirt off! Smell the realism!)

You may detect just the slightest hint of sarcasm. The slightest. A hint.

Hmm. Don't notice anything.