Monster Manual: I miss the fluff.

[glass]

The thing is ... we all know that they didn't include much fluff in the MM because they plan to sell it to us in bits and pieces throughout the life of 4e. Come on! WotC is a subsidiary of a massive toy corporation: "Parts Sold Separately" and all that.

Huh? D&D has always had supplements, going all the way back to Diaglo's favourite. Has TSR/WotC always been a subsidiary of a toy company?


glass.

 

[Ourph]

My first MM was the MM1 for ADnD, it had a giant fighting a ranger-looking dude on the cover.

That would be the AD&D Monster Manual II.

 

[pukunui]

Huh? D&D has always had supplements, going all the way back to Diaglo's favourite. Has TSR/WotC always been a subsidiary of a toy company?

Up until now, the supplements have always been optional. While they may continue to be labeled as optional, we all know they're really not. 4e is not like the 3.x where you can just get the first three books and say, "OK, that's the core rules. That's all I need." If you want to play the complete 4e game, you're going to have to buy all the books because they're all going to be core. The 4e PHB I, DMG I, and MM I aren't the "core rulebooks". They're the first three core rulebooks.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

They are core in as much as they can fit perfectly within the core-rules without tweaking, and add standard elements of D&D.

When it comes to actual rules and playing, all you need (and will always need) are the first corebooks.

 

[pukunui]

They are core in as much as they can fit perfectly within the core-rules without tweaking, and add standard elements of D&D.

They are also core in as much as they will contain things that they couldn't fit into the first three books ... as well as things that they deliberately chose to leave out so you'd buy the later books (and so that they could also say the later books are just as essential as the first books).

When it comes to actual rules and playing, all you need (and will always need) are the first corebooks.

Have you actually looked at them? The first three books we're getting aren't really what I'd call a complete package. I personally don't mind because I'm planning on getting just about every 4e book anyway but I can see why some people feel gipped because not everything not only does the initial 4e release not contain everything the initial 3.x release(s) contained, it doesn't even contain everything that WotC said/hinted at/suggested it would contain.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

While it may not come with all the classes, items and such, the actual RULES you need to play the game are concrete and there, and this will be the only corebooks to have the main-rules within it. The additional corebooks are going to be adding things but they won't be copying the rules sections again for them, so you will need the first corebooks, and as such they are the corebooks of the game, the foundation essentially.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A toolbox of ready to use monster stats is only half the function I want for using a monster at the table. A monster with unanswered questions and open fill in the blank descriptions is not ready to use out of the box for me.

A monster with a unanswered question like "Huh, what's its attack bonus if it's in Whirlwind form" is bad. A monster with the unanswered question of "Huh, how was this beast created?" is good.
Because it gives the DM the option to make this a theme for an adventure. He can decide whatever he likes (or wait until the player suggest something cool and pick it up for later use), and build a story around it.

 

[pukunui]

While it may not come with all the classes, items and such, the actual RULES you need to play the game are concrete and there, and this will be the only corebooks to have the main-rules within it. The additional corebooks are going to be adding things but they won't be copying the rules sections again for them, so you will need the first corebooks, and as such they are the corebooks of the game, the foundation essentially.

OK. That's a fair point.