Monster Manual IV needs errata before its publishing?

[Stone Dog]

I just can't understand how it is a house rule. If something says it can be used "as a martial weapon" in a certain circumstance then under that certain circumstance it actually can be used "as a martial weapon" in all cases where martial weapon rules apply.

I'm just going to back out of this though. It is like arguing "Your character class doesn't let you pilot all land vehicles, so you have to learn to drive a stick-shift car in order to proficiently drive an automatic car."

 

[calypso15]

I'm just going to back out of this though. It is like arguing "Your character class doesn't let you pilot all land vehicles, so you have to learn to drive a stick-shift car in order to proficiently drive an automatic car."

Probably for the best. This thread has gone so far astray that it's silly.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Probably for the best. This thread has gone so far astray that it's silly.

I'm still trying to figure out what it went astray from.

 

[calypso15]

I'm still trying to figure out what it went astray from.

Here is my summary of the thread so far:

1. Egres claims monster entry in MMIV is wrong because it doesn't list EWP(Bastard Sword)
2. Calypso points out that Monstrous Humanoids automatically are proficient with any weapon in their entry
5. Egres claims that that doesn't imply that they can use it proficiently one handed
6. Hypersmurf claims that MWP(Bastard Sword) doesn't exist
7 through 134. People arguing whether MWP(Bastard Sword) exists

Calypso

 

[glass]

I've already listed two official sources that indicate that the bastard sword (two-handed) can be selected as a martial weapon proficiency feat.

And those 'official sources' are wrong.

EDIT: Or better put, 'what Voadam said!'


glass.

 

[glass]

Egres' point is valid. The arguments against MWP (Bastard sword) are based on the following points.

1. A bastard sword is an exotic weapon.

2. You cannot take MWP (Bastard sword) because it is not a martial weapon.

With the above points as an argument against MWP (BS), then a fighter, which is proficient with all martial weapons, would take the nonproficiency penalties when wielding a bastard sword two handed because it is still an exotic weapon. The argument against MWP (BS) because it is an exotic weapon also precludes the fighter from using it without penalty because fighters are proficient with all martial weapons, not exotic weapons.

Egres's point is not valid, but your actually is. You could argue that no-one can use it in 2 hands without penalty (apart from people who can also use it in 1 hand). The trouble is, by that interpretation the 'can be used as a martial weapon' does nothing at all.

The bastard sword's text states that it is a one handed exotic weapon and a two handed martial weapon.

No it doesn't. It quite clearly states that it can be used as a martial weapon, not that it is one. It it did say what you say it said, then the text would override the table and I would be on a different side of this debate. But, it doesn't os I'm not.


glass.

 

[glass]

So lets say a player wants to be a shugenja in an oriental style campaign. A katana is a master crafted bastard sword. The player wants to carry and wield a family katana and in character practices with it every day. His STR is merely 11 and so he can't take EWP, but he wants to wield it anyway without the -4 and asks to pick up MWP Katana so he can use the sword two handed.

EDIT (You are the GM) What comes next?

I have already stated that a player IMC that wants it can have MWP (bastard sword) if he wants it. I just don't believe that my ruling would be in strict accordance with the RAW.


glass.

 

[Egres]

And those 'official sources' are wrong.

They are wrong based on something you did admit you can't demostrate?

Inconsequential.

Egres's point is not valid, but your actually is. You could argue that no-one can use it in 2 hands without penalty (apart from people who can also use it in 1 hand).

What's my point that isn't valid?

You are the one who claims that my bard cannot wield a bastard sword two handed, and you are the one who stated that can't demonstrate that a fighter could.

So, it seems that your point is not valid.

The trouble is, by that interpretation the 'can be used as a martial weapon' does nothing at all.

Unless you accept the logical consequence, that the MWP bastard sword does exist.

 

[glass]

They are wrong based on something you did admit you can't demostrate?

I admitted it wasn't spelled out in exactly the words you requested. however, I believe I have demonstrated my 'something' several times over.

What's my point that isn't valid?

That you can take MWP bastard sword, depite two facts:

1. The MWP feat description says 'choose and martial weapon'.
2. A bastard sword is not a martial weapon.

You are the one who claims that my bard cannot wield a bastard sword two handed, and you are the one who stated that can't demonstrate that a fighter could.

So, it seems that your point is not valid. Unless you accept the logical consequence, that the MWP bastard sword does exist.

EDIT: Missread rour last point. I'll reply to it properly in a minute.


glass.

 

[glass]

You are the one who claims that my bard cannot wield a bastard sword two handed, and you are the one who stated that can't demonstrate that a fighter could.

So, it seems that your point is not valid.


Unless you accept the logical consequence, that the MWP bastard sword does exist.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic here, but you seem to be saying that because (in my interpretation) MWP (bs) does not exist, it is not possible to be martially proficient with a bastard sword. If that is what you are saying, then it doesn't follow.

If my problem with MWP (bs) is that it wouldn't make you proficient with the use of a bastard sword as a martial weapon, then the fighter's ability wouldn't either, but that isn't my position. MWP (bs) would make you proficient just fine, if you could take it, but for the reasons I listed above, you can't.
A fighter's ability to be proficient with all martial weapons also works just fine, and unlike MWP (bs) you can take it (if you take a fighter level, in which case you have no choice but to take it).


glass.