Monster Manual IV thoughts?
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
In the interest of civil discourse, I shall share my opinion. Which, unlike a lot of other peoples, was fairly positive.
Is it my favorite monster manual? No. I think it's on par with MMIII. That is to say, lots of great ideas, but flawed execution. The MMIII's flaw was the editing - the error rate in the stat blocks was nothing short of incredible, and I'm not talking just about minor stat glitches. The MMIV's flaw is in the presentation of too many sample creatures and in the expanded entry format. Don't get me wrong. I love flavor text. I love it a lot. But do we really need a paragraph on environment? Treasure? Alignment? These things can be summarized with one line in the old stat block, and can and should be expanded on if need be in the flavor text. Not given their own paragraphs. I can tell you, writing in the MMIV standard can be annoying, especially when trying to maintain a word count.
As for the sample NPCs from MM creatures, they're a mixed bag. There's some really good ideas throughout (the abomination marshal, the ecology of gnoll tribes and Yeenoghu's "blessings", plague speakers, etc). But not enough. The gnolls were interesting. But did we need quite so much space devoted to them? Seven or so pages on one lizardfolk tribe?
Although I do admit I've already used the stats for the ogre scout in my Eberron game. So they're not useless. But not really MM material.
As for the maps, blah. Count me out.
Now, that's a lot of griping. On to what I liked. The new monsters, for the most part, are creative and interesting. There's all sorts of cool little mechanical tricks thrown out there in the book that I loved, like the blackstone triskelion being able to resist area effects by sheer fortitude and the nashrou's vulnerability to critical hits. There's a lot of concepts that excite me, like the zern (loves me the aberrant masterminds), the vitreous drinker (eyes of Vecna!), and the new demons (the deathdrinker left me a bit cold, but otherwise...). There's a lot of good monsters in here, despite there being less of them.
As for the Spawn of Tiamat... I like 'em. Kind of. They're kind of bland on paper, but feel like they'd make for interesting encounters. I've already used a greenspawn razorwing on my party, and it was quite memorable (as in, they nearly got wasted). But there's one too many of them - reading the book from cover to cover (as I am wont to do) was a little boring when I got to the Spawn Spawn Spawn section.
And I love the art in this book. Arnie Swekel is back in a big way. Even pieces that have been called out on these threads as terrible I love. He's got a great eye for detail - even a fat spider with a black dragon's head looks plausible. And Wayne Reynolds turns in some great work here, like the aforementioned vitreous drinker.
So, the MMIV is a mixed bag for me. I'm glad I bought it - I'm a monster junkie, and I'm already busily inserting creatures from it into my Age of Worms campaign. But there's some stuff in there that doesn't sit too well with me.
My ranking of the non-core Monster Manuals, in case you cared, is:
Fiend Folio
MMIII
MMIV (only slightly worse than MMIII, IMO)
MMII.
Demiurge out.
Is it my favorite monster manual? No. I think it's on par with MMIII. That is to say, lots of great ideas, but flawed execution. The MMIII's flaw was the editing - the error rate in the stat blocks was nothing short of incredible, and I'm not talking just about minor stat glitches. The MMIV's flaw is in the presentation of too many sample creatures and in the expanded entry format. Don't get me wrong. I love flavor text. I love it a lot. But do we really need a paragraph on environment? Treasure? Alignment? These things can be summarized with one line in the old stat block, and can and should be expanded on if need be in the flavor text. Not given their own paragraphs. I can tell you, writing in the MMIV standard can be annoying, especially when trying to maintain a word count.
As for the sample NPCs from MM creatures, they're a mixed bag. There's some really good ideas throughout (the abomination marshal, the ecology of gnoll tribes and Yeenoghu's "blessings", plague speakers, etc). But not enough. The gnolls were interesting. But did we need quite so much space devoted to them? Seven or so pages on one lizardfolk tribe?
Although I do admit I've already used the stats for the ogre scout in my Eberron game. So they're not useless. But not really MM material.
As for the maps, blah. Count me out.
Now, that's a lot of griping. On to what I liked. The new monsters, for the most part, are creative and interesting. There's all sorts of cool little mechanical tricks thrown out there in the book that I loved, like the blackstone triskelion being able to resist area effects by sheer fortitude and the nashrou's vulnerability to critical hits. There's a lot of concepts that excite me, like the zern (loves me the aberrant masterminds), the vitreous drinker (eyes of Vecna!), and the new demons (the deathdrinker left me a bit cold, but otherwise...). There's a lot of good monsters in here, despite there being less of them.
As for the Spawn of Tiamat... I like 'em. Kind of. They're kind of bland on paper, but feel like they'd make for interesting encounters. I've already used a greenspawn razorwing on my party, and it was quite memorable (as in, they nearly got wasted). But there's one too many of them - reading the book from cover to cover (as I am wont to do) was a little boring when I got to the Spawn Spawn Spawn section.
And I love the art in this book. Arnie Swekel is back in a big way. Even pieces that have been called out on these threads as terrible I love. He's got a great eye for detail - even a fat spider with a black dragon's head looks plausible. And Wayne Reynolds turns in some great work here, like the aforementioned vitreous drinker.
So, the MMIV is a mixed bag for me. I'm glad I bought it - I'm a monster junkie, and I'm already busily inserting creatures from it into my Age of Worms campaign. But there's some stuff in there that doesn't sit too well with me.
My ranking of the non-core Monster Manuals, in case you cared, is:
Fiend Folio
MMIII
MMIV (only slightly worse than MMIII, IMO)
MMII.
Demiurge out.
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Steel_Wind
Legend
To be perfectly honest, I bought MM IV and flipped through it for 30 seconds.
And that's it.
It might be good, bad or indifferent. I really don't know. All I can say for sure is that right now it is less interesting to me than Hordes of the Abyss, which I got at the same time.
I'm reading Hordes of the Abyss now.
And that's it.
It might be good, bad or indifferent. I really don't know. All I can say for sure is that right now it is less interesting to me than Hordes of the Abyss, which I got at the same time.
I'm reading Hordes of the Abyss now.
green slime
First Post
MerricB said:I've already used two monsters from MMIV in my campaign (Redspawn Arcaniss and Greenspawn Razorfiend) to great effect. I can't wait until I actually see the book.
Cheers!
Well, I hope you aren't disappointed. I know I was.
Disappointed horribly with it. Pretty much take what Demiurge said the flaws were with the book and multiple that with 10 for me. It was a sad, very sad, Manual...which was barely a manual to begin with (72 new monsters and 2 templates compared to Monsters of Faerun's 8 templates I believe and over 100 monsters, way over I think I have yet to count them)
JoeGKushner
First Post
To me, it's not really a monster manual but rather some insedious cross breed of an Enemies and Allies book crossed with a Monster of the Week article from Dragon magazine with some additional information thrown in.
Not terrible but certainly NOT what I'm looking for in a monster manual.
Now I'm wondering if 4th ed comes, will this be the default format for the core Monster Manual.
Not terrible but certainly NOT what I'm looking for in a monster manual.
Now I'm wondering if 4th ed comes, will this be the default format for the core Monster Manual.
Obergnom
First Post
I really like it! I do think there should be more monsters in it, but I like the new format. I can use a CR 18 Monster with just 5-10 minutes of prep time, thats just great! Less prep time than play time is really important to me. And if I need more of that monster, maybe design a sidequest around it, the ecology entry and all that stuff ist just awesome.
It has got flaws, of course. While I actually like those Drow and Gnolls I do not think they need an ecology entry. Everybody knows them already.
btw. I really do not care what should be inside a Monster Manual. Not at all. There are maps inside this one I can use, there are npc's I can use to design a quick encounter (Ever tried doing an Orc Warband on the fly for your 8th Level Group...) These days I only care for how much gaming I get from a book. That is InGame usefullness, I am tired of investing 30 minutes in building another Orc Warband, only finishing in 30 minutes becouse I stick to the simpler classes. And thats where MM4 shines, IMO.
It has got flaws, of course. While I actually like those Drow and Gnolls I do not think they need an ecology entry. Everybody knows them already.
btw. I really do not care what should be inside a Monster Manual. Not at all. There are maps inside this one I can use, there are npc's I can use to design a quick encounter (Ever tried doing an Orc Warband on the fly for your 8th Level Group...) These days I only care for how much gaming I get from a book. That is InGame usefullness, I am tired of investing 30 minutes in building another Orc Warband, only finishing in 30 minutes becouse I stick to the simpler classes. And thats where MM4 shines, IMO.
