Monster Manual IV vs. Tome of Horrors III

[GrayLinnorm]

Now that both monster books are out, which one do you like better? I have both, and I would give my nod to ToH3. It has more monsters, more interesting monsters, more high-level monsters (including epic level creatures, which MMIV doesn't have at all), doesn't waste half the book on creatures already in MM (although it does have several orc variants and classed monsters), and uses the original good stat block. You've probably heard most of the complaints about the new format already, but: 1) I liked it better when Hit Dice were broken down --- saying a monster has 14 HD works fine -- for 1e! 2) what was wrong with listing resistances and immunities under "Special Qualities"? That was a lot easier, but maybe I'm just used to the original format 3) Why isn't Organization (i.e. Number Appearing) given in the WoTC books that use the new format? It's still given in Dungeon. Treasure should be in the stat block too (and there are some creatures that don't even have it listed).

MMIV does have some interesting creatures -- I wouldn't have bought it if it didn't -- I liked the oozes, the shadow squirrels, the lodestone marauder, the clockroach, the deathdrinker demon, and yes, the spawn of Tiamat (please don't hurt me). On the other hand, the oaken defender could have used some more special abilities.

 

[Shade]

I'd have a hard time finding a monster book I didn't like better than MMIV.

 

[Echohawk]

I don't think the MM IV is that bad. In fact, I really like many of the new creatures and the expanded entries covering sample encounters, ecology and lore. I'm an unapologetically lazy DM, and these expanded monster entries tend to make my job easier. I also don't mind the new stat block format, although it still needs a bit of tweaking, the current version has been too simplified in places.

I'm probably in a minority in that I find the classed creatures useful too (since, as already mentioned, I'm a lazy DM), but I'd have preferred to get those in a different book -- the "Big Book of Encounters" or something. I don't particularly like having the classed creatures taking up valuable space in a Monster Manual.

As for the Spawn... well, I have a soft spot for them simply because they appear in the Red Hand of Doom, and that's my current favourite D&D product, so it's hard to hate the spawn completely.

 

[BOZ]

having seen it, i probably won't be buying it. that said, i can see how it would be useful for some folks.

 

[Shade]

It does have pretty artwork. And a few of the critters (concordant killer, new demons) are pretty cool.

 

[dhaga]

I haven't yet purchased a 3e monster manual (the first MM was a gift, several years back) I have so many 2nd Ed creatures to use that I just haven't seen the use in buying another Monster reference just yet, except maybe to take some of the work out of converting the 2nd Ed ones (since I haven't had time to do a conversion in over a year, I think).

That said, I may or may not be picking up one of these new tomes.

 

[Soel]

Both books are decent. MM4 in the way of weirder baddies (the Zern are already screaming at me,) and ToH 3 in the way of simpler encounters.

If I had to pick one first, I'd go with MM4, in spite of its huge coverage of Tiamat spawn, and classed basic critters ( which I would've minded less if they went with more non-traditional monsters. How about psychic warrior bladelings, or beguiler whisper gnomes, or spirit shaman troglodytes, or berserker grell. Would have been cool to make use of more templates on these as well....)

 

[Echohawk]

I like the ToH 3 too, although I do wish it was in colour. Heck, I'd buy new copies of all three Tomes of Horror if they were rereleased in colour.

 

[Kafkonia]

Tome of Horrors III, absolutely. I own a distressing number of monster books, and while I like some of the MMIV content, on the whole I'd have to place it quite near the bottom. I buy these mostly for inspiration, and there just wasn't much to inspire me in MMIV -- especially since the monsters they revisited are ones I tend not to have much interest in to begin with.

 

[Grazzt]

Tome 3 for me....but then again, I am slightly biased.

Actually, I wasnt that impressed with MM4 at all. IMO, the worst of the monster books released (thus far) by WotC. (Course I didnt care much for MM2 either). I did like the FF A LOT however...very useful book (for me).