Monster XP Formula

fnwc

Explorer
Spatula said:
So 4 1st level PCs face 4 1st level monsters, or: 400 xp. In theory we're supposed to be able to throw together anything that adds up to 400 xp, and it should be around the same difficulty. Which means that a party of 4 level 1s can fight a level 9 monster (gargoyle, grick alpha, shadow panther are ones we have stats for right now) with no problems.
Has anyone had a chance to run 4 of the sample characters against one of the level 9 monsters yet? I'm curious if the 'encounter XP budget' system works in actual gameplay.
 

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Spatula

Explorer
Keep in mind we don't really know what the effect of a "proper" encounter is supposed to be. In 3e, an encounter at the party's level is supposed to consume roughly 20% of the party's resources. How tough should an equal-level encounter be to defeat in 4e? I don't think we know that yet.

But based on the stats of those monsters & the sample PCs, I think the fight should be winnable, but possibly exhausting. The main obstacle would be hitting, as the 9th level monsters' defenses are all mostly 20+ (AC 23-24, making the fighter's job rather tough, and the grick has some kind of DR vs weapons on top of that).
 

ltbaxter

First Post
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, as the definition of 'resources' for the day has changed quite a bit in 4e. Since each encounter has a 'free mix' of at-will powers, plus one encounter power use, those are automatically renewed per encounter.

The main daily resources then are: healing surges and daily powers.
A 'rough' encounter should see the fighter burn through almost all his hit points, and controllers half. Since each healing surge restores 25% of hit points, that's 4/2 surges for a medium tough encounter, and the fighter/wizard have about 12/6 surges per day. So an encounter on the tough side but not requiring (much) daily power use would be 33%. A 'normal' encounter in 3.5 terms would use about 20% of resources, which would be about 2 healing surges for the defenders and 1 for the controllers, 1-2 for others. A very tough encounter would probably drain 50% of the resources including most of the daily powers.

The other interesting question will be: what XP ratio will be 'normal' (20%) encounter and what will be a difficult (33%, some daily powers) or very difficult (50%, most/all daily powers). The figure of 100xp per character for first lvl has been tossed about. From what little playtesting I've done that does seem like a 'normal' encounter. Some folks designing encounters have been suggesting over 700 for a difficult (but not BBEG) encounter. Others are going so far as to take the 875-900 for the young dragon as the 'very difficult'. But I think that's more the 'nearly impossible' one likely to end in a TPK, making double the normal XP as a BBEG level encounter, and +50% exp a 'nicely' difficult one.

In a multi-day adventure with one particularly tough end battle, I would design the 'last day' to have several normal encounters and one that takes some healing surges and makes them strongly consider (or use) a small number of daily powers. Make 'em happy they saved 'em or sad they didn't for the final battle. On a day prior to the climax, I would probably have one easy encounter, three normal and one difficult; or mix that up with a few easy, two normal and two difficult encounters. As far as leveling up, it's likely that 10 'normal' (recommended 100xp/1st lvl/character) should get them to level up, so if normals are 20% of a day, that would be two adventuring days being one level gained, which is a nice pace (imho).
 

keterys

First Post
The elite chuul is definitely 10,200 - and a bloodfiend is 5,100 (lvl 23 normal) so that supports Racinante's math I guess.
 

Spatula

Explorer
It's odd that you'd have a fairly simple pattern, and then suddenly change it for the last 1/3 of the series. The jump goes from +400 xp per level to... 950? Then to 2000. Those are odd numbers to stick in there.

In any case, it implies that there is a sudden power boost in the upper tier of levels, that doesn't exist when characters cross into the 11-20 range.
 

breschau

First Post
That's a great effort and it looks good, but it doesn't seem to match some of the monsters we have. From the monsters pdf floating around here the Defiant Rake (Skirmisher 5; 350 xp) blows the range of xp theory and the chart. The Skeletal Tomb Guardian (Elite Brute 10; 350 xp) really blows it. Bugbear Headreaver (Brute 7; 250 xp). Gnoll Claw Fighter (6; 200 xp).
 

keterys

First Post
The gnoll claw fighter's actual xp value is 250. The other monsters were not garnered from actual monster manual pages and likely have made up numbers at best.
 

Spatula

Explorer
Spatula said:
It's odd that you'd have a fairly simple pattern, and then suddenly change it for the last 1/3 of the series. The jump goes from +400 xp per level to... 950? Then to 2000. Those are odd numbers to stick in there.

In any case, it implies that there is a sudden power boost in the upper tier of levels, that doesn't exist when characters cross into the 11-20 range.
So, the War Devil & Phane's xp totals match Racinante's progression perfectly. More evidence that the Epic tier is substantially different from the first two tiers.
 


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