Monsterous casters and spontaneous healing

[Evilhalfling]

Okay in the battle of all alignments subforum we have run into this problem, mostly with good outsiders.
A Plantar can cast spells as a 17th level cleric. Can it use sponaneous cures?

 

[andargor]

Okay in the battle of all alignments subforum we have run into this problem, mostly with good outsiders.
A Plantar can cast spells as a 17th level cleric. Can it use sponaneous cures?

Sure, they're spells, not spell-like abilities. Plus it mentions that they have domains, and hence a domain slot.

Treat them exactly like 17th-level clerics for casting purposes.

Andargor

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure, they're spells, not spell-like abilities. Plus it mentions that they have domains, and hence a domain slot.

Treat them exactly like 17th-level clerics for casting purposes.

It says they cast spells as clerics. It does not say that they are clerics. Big difference. They don't get spontaneous casting or turning abilities or proficiencies or anything else a cleric gets. Likewise, if the monster description says "as sorcerer" they don't get familiars. For example, a water naga does not get the summon familiar class ability.

 

[andargor]

It says they cast spells as clerics. It does not say that they are clerics. Big difference. They don't get spontaneous casting or turning abilities or proficiencies or anything else a cleric gets. Likewise, if the monster description says "as sorcerer" they don't get familiars. For example, a water naga does not get the summon familiar class ability.

Yes, I'd considered that. But domain spells are also a class feature of the cleric, and domain spells are listed for the planetar.

The DM can rule either way, but the indications are strong that the planetar casts spells exactly like a 17th-level cleric, including spontaneous spells.

EDIT: Another indication is that there are no cure spells memorized in the provided list. Odd, no?

Andargor

 

[FEADIN]

Yes they are not clerics, I read something about this somewhere but I don't remenber.
If they could transform into cure why put some cure spells in their list in the Monster????

 

[andargor]

If they could transform into cure why put some cure spells in their list in the Monster????

There are none of the cure spells in the list (except the mass versions).

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/8/8/7/7/6/6/4/3/2; save DC 16 + spell level): 0-create water, detect magic, guidance, resistance (2), virtue; 1st-bless (2), cause fear, divine favor (2), entropic shield, inflict light wounds*, shield of faith; 2nd-aid*, align weapon, bear's endurance, bull's strength (2), consecrate, eagle's splendor, hold person; 3rd-contagion*, daylight, invisibility purge, prayer (2), summon monster III, wind wall; 4th- death ward, dismissal, inflict critical wounds*, neutralize poison (2), summon monster IV; 5th- break enchantment, circle of doom*, dispel evil, mark of justice, plane shift, righteous might; 6th-banishment, greater dispel magic, harm*, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure moderate wounds; 7th- dictum, disintegrate*, holy word, regenerate; 8th-holy aura*, mass cure critical wounds, shield of law; 9th-implosion, summon monster IX (good)*.

Andargor

 

[FEADIN]

There is, mass cure spells ARE cure spells

Edit: I have found something in the rules:

Spells: Sometimes a creature can cast arcane or divine spells just as a member of a spellcasting class can (and can activate magic items accordingly). Such creatures are subject to the same spellcasting rules that characters are, except as follows.
A spellcasting creature that lacks hands or arms can provide any somatic component a spell might require by moving its body. Such a creature also does need material components for its spells. The creature can cast the spell by either touching the required component (but not if the component is in another creature’s possession) or having the required component on its person. Sometimes spellcasting creatures utilize the Eschew Materials feat to avoid fussing with noncostly components.
A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. A creature with access to cleric spells must prepare them in the normal manner and receives domain spells if noted, but it does not receive domain granted powers unless it has at least one level in the cleric class.

 

[andargor]

There is, mass cure spells ARE cure spells

Edit: I have found something in the rules:
...
A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. A creature with access to cleric spells must prepare them in the normal manner and receives domain spells if noted, but it does not receive domain granted powers unless it has at least one level in the cleric class.

Ah! Interesting. From that passage, then, they wouldn't be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. How strange that a Planetar is bad at healing... The Solar too, for that matter.

Bad design on the part of the author of these monsters, who probably thought, as I did, that they could spontaneously convert.

Andargor

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ah! Interesting. From that passage, then, they wouldn't be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. How strange that a Planetar is bad at healing... The Solar too, for that matter.

Bad design on the part of the author of these monsters, who probably thought, as I did, that they could spontaneously convert.

Andargor

I agree. Hopefully, though, if you are actually planning on introducing a planetar or the like, you'll create a spell list appropriate to your campaign and how you think the monster should be run. Unfortunately, for the BoAA, we are using the stat blocks as printed and trying to stick to core as much as possible. Thus, no spontaneous casting.

 

[griff_goodbeard]

Ah! Interesting. From that passage, then, they wouldn't be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. How strange that a Planetar is bad at healing... The Solar too, for that matter.

Bad design on the part of the author of these monsters, who probably thought, as I did, that they could spontaneously convert.

They can cast spells as a 17th level cleric, I'd say it's false to say they're bad at healing. I'd say anyone who can cast mass heal is good at healing. Just not as good as a cleric, which is OK with me.