Monsters and Humanoid Races!

[Bonedagger]

Just an idea

Hey. This gave me an idea.

Imagine this land.

Generations ago a conflict of interrest broke out between humans and the 'good' races (Elfs, Dwarfs, Gnomes and Halflings). Among the humans a group of fanatics arose who saw it as their goal to rid the land of these corrupted beings. They succeded. Now because of their victory they became a political power and in the times to come their victory became a legend. And the 'good' races were described as monsters to make their victory seem bigger....

Today children are taught that elves are more evil than the orcs living in the mountains etc.

The point is: You can play a race other than human but you better hide your face

 

[Droogie]

With so many humanoid races in the MM, the competition for space and resources must be neverending. A world like this would be at constant war. Not only that, but with so many intelligent species, at least some would go on to form organized societies, cultures, and nations that could truly threaten humankind. However, it sounds like most DMs like to keep humans as the main race for their campaign, so most trim the humanoids down to focus on just a few. Probably a good move.


Anyone remember the Known World series of articles from Drag Mag highlighting the OD&D campaign world? I remember there was a nation of dog people (lupins, I think they were called) modeled after medieval France and a nation of cat people (rakastas) modeled after England. They were constantly at each others' throats. It was pretty clever.

 

[Corinth]

I lump all goblinoids together, using the MM entries as races within a single species. (Orcs get lumped in also.)

 

[Vacuum Elemental]

Apples and oranges really. Sometimes we prefer something more historic, other times we go more exotic. High fantasy doesn't equal over powered uber magic. A society of delvers plowing fields in exchange for precious metals, ettercaps draping orchards with webs to assist in harvests and pest control or gnoll chefs perfecting the ultimate barbeque. Increasing campaign oddities does not necessarily kill the magic of traditional settings. I agree that it does wound it some; I've yet to play back to back sessions of Greyhawk & Planescape.

 

[Deadguy]

I lump all goblinoids together, using the MM entries as races within a single species. (Orcs get lumped in also.)

That sounds very similar, Corinth, to what I have done for my own Shattered World campaign, though I haven't gone quite as far. I suppose I wanted two distinct lines of monstrous humanoids:

1. Physically Powerful Humanoids: this group incorporates the physically focussed races like Orcs and Ogres. They have been roughly graded using a colour schema (so weak Green Orcs, stronger Brown, Grey and Black Orc tribes), and I also threw in a demon-tainted line (the Pit Orcs, using the half-fiend template on an Ogre, but smarter)
2. Magical Humanoids: I wanted a line of humanoids inherently good at magic. I decided to follow myth and base this off the goblins and hobgoblins, altering each race to give more inherent magic and a tendency to Sorcery. They have a degenerate giant amongst them (the converted bugbear, given some inherent magic like Blur). I also produced the Goblin Knight, a weird size-changing goblin warrior, with much inherent magical ability; this allows for the ' Dark Knight guarding the Bridge' scenario.
   [/list=1]
   And that is it. Add to that that I have also thrown out all the PHB races bar the Human and the Half-Orc, means that there is a real focus on three competing visions of "empire": humans, with their flexibility and learning; Orcs based on raw physical stength and an innate technical sense; and Goblins the masters of inherent magic, controlling the world through that magic.
   
   I am not sure how far to take the idea of different Human "breeds". Aside from the fact that the idea gives me a vague feeling of disquiet, I am not sure how to put it into place.
   
   Anyone have any feelings about this, or suggestions for its implementation? Or has anyone already done this? If you have, how has it worked out?

 

[bwgwl]

i agree that using all the humanoid races in the monster manual and PHB can lead to overcrowding. we have plenty of conflict in our world with only one species -- imagine what it would be like with 15 or 20 sentient species all competing for space!

in the world i'm currently working on, the "civilized" races are human, dwarf, goblin, and troll. that's it. no elves, no halflings, no gnomes, no orcs, etc.

there are other sentient races out there (minotaurs, centaurs, giants, medusas, etc.), but they are considered to be "monster" races and don't take part in civilization -- i.e., they don't settle down and build communities or form nations like the civilized races do. they live, for the most part, out in the wilderness away from the other races.

dwarves are very limited geographically and in numbers - they only exist in three different areas in the world, and rarely leave their homelands.

the goblins and trolls of this world are a bit different from those in the monster manual. firstly, they are not usually evil - they tend towards neutrality. goblins look the same as normal, but have racial stats more like the PHB halfling. trolls are just large-size goblins, more like a bugbear with the stats of an ogre (so no regeneration). goblins and trolls are closely related species and the two tend to live together in the same areas and share the same cultures.

both goblins and trolls are capable of crossbreeding with humans. anyone with a mixture of human and goblinoid blood will look fairly goblinoid but will be human sized. these people are called hobgoblins.

i have been thinking that the setting may need some more diversity, though, with only five races. since my world has experienced a large amount of outsider visitations and interventions, i'm thinking of taking aasimars, tieflings, and genasi and turning them into templates so i can apply them to any of my standard races.

 

[mmadsen]

I wanted a line of humanoids inherently good at magic. I decided to follow myth and base this off the goblins and hobgoblins, altering each race to give more inherent magic and a tendency to Sorcery.

I find it shocking that D&D offers Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, etc., and none of them represent the standard magical trickster of folklore. They're all variations on the Tolkien Orc.

 

[Desdichado]

i agree that using all the humanoid races in the monster manual and PHB can lead to overcrowding. we have plenty of conflict in our world with only one species -- imagine what it would be like with 15 or 20 sentient species all competing for space!

I don't. Anthropologists will tell you that before Homo sapiens sapiens rose to the fore and the other human(oid) species went extinct, there were probably half a dozen humanoid species or subspecies in Africa alone. I'd guess the races from a typical D&D campaign aren't much more than sub-species apart from each other. After all, half-orcs and half-elves, at least, can create viable, fertile offspring.

 

[Lord Ben]

In D&D you have dozens of races competing for space and dominance. In our history you had dozen's of Kingdoms and nations? Why is it so hard to believe there would be dozens of races competing with each other when in our history there have been dozen's of nations in Europe alone that have all competed at one time or another.

 

[bwgwl]

Joshua Dyal said:

Anthropologists will tell you that before Homo sapiens sapiens rose to the fore and the other human(oid) species went extinct, there were probably half a dozen humanoid species or subspecies in Africa alone. I'd guess the races from a typical D&D campaign aren't much more than sub-species apart from each other. After all, half-orcs and half-elves, at least, can create viable, fertile offspring.

that's a good point, but that can also be used to argue the other way. you don't see too many of those other hominid species walking down the street today -- because competition between the hominids resulted in our species coming to dominate the world and we drove all the rest extinct. i'd suspect the same things would happen in a typical fantasy world also, so i'd still maintain that a world with dozens of advanced, civilized, sentient species is a bit far-fetched, unless you are not using evolution and other real world processes to describe how the races arose and developed.

Lord Ben said:

In D&D you have dozens of races competing for space and dominance. In our history you had dozen's of Kingdoms and nations? Why is it so hard to believe there would be dozens of races competing with each other when in our history there have been dozen's of nations in Europe alone that have all competed at one time or another.

apples and oranges. firstly, by having so many sentient races, each having, say, only one small kingdom, you are giving them too small a population base and gene pool to survive and grow. it's different from our world where we're all humans capable of breeding with each other. if you use the standard fantasy convention that different races can interbreed, after a sufficient period of time, the majority of the population should be halfbreeds, and there would be very few pure-blooded individuals left.

aside from using logic and scientific arguments into the merits of having a few or many humanoid races, there's a good thematic reason why they should be limited.

most fantasy worlds with a lot of different races tend to give each race a stereotypical personality and culture. this is rather unrealistic and it pigeonholes the race into being a "one-trick pony." there's a couple of dragonlance threads already floating around here about how a lot of people dislike the presentation of the "little" races (dwarves, gnomes, and kender) in that setting because they are so cliched.

on the other hand, if you allow each race to have the same diversity and range of personalities and cultures that humans always seem to have, you begin to lose the differences between them. and if there's no real difference between the races besides a few game stats, you might as well consolidate them into a smaller number of races.

so instead of having orcs be the "barbaric humanoids," hobgoblins being the "civilized, regimented humanoids," and goblins being the "small, cunning humanoids," why not just have one race with three different cultures? is there really a need to define a new species for each permutation of personality and culture?

of course, there can always be compelling in-game reasons for having a plethora of species (perhaps the gods created them all purposefully). but i think serious consideration should be made about the role and purpose of all the races in a campaign world.