Monsters and Humanoid Races!
- Thread starter SHARK
- Start date
Deadguy
First Post
I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. The only races that come close tend to be Underdark species, who had inherent spells tacked on to make the different in something more than name.mmadsen said:
In fact, I can't for the life of me think why they were left out. They're such a staple of myth. And they aren't supposed to be wacky. They are dangerous and unpredictable, a threat to people who cross them.
Anyone hazard a guess why they don't appear?
Desdichado
Hero
Yes, but many will argue that that is the unnatural state. After all, it's only been the last c. 20,000 years that there has only been one homonid race on earth, while there were literally millions of years prior to that when diversity was the order of the day.
We don't really know how big a population needs to be to have a viable gene-pool. Most fantasy settings presume a population of at least hundreds of thousands of individuals of a given race concentrated in an area, I'd hazard a guess. That's not that big, but certainly it should be big enough, barring some catastrophe, to carry on the race.
I quite agree. Currently the spectrum seen in, say, Forgotten Realms borders on ridiculous. If you think back to Tolkien, who started it all, I guess you could say, then you have much less in terms of races. One race of orcs, with a lot of regional and cultural variation, until Sauron bred the uruks as a fighter elite, and Saruman attempted the same strategy. Three races of elves, of which only one realistically had stat differences. Two of them were practically all either extinct or migrated to Aman during the time frame of the novels anyway. One race of dwarves. One race of halflings (consolidated from three prior "breeds" that had primarily intermingled to the point of indistinction by the time frame of the novels -- and they likely wouldn't have had stat differences anyway.) Several races of humans, but differences could be done better with regional feats and backgrounds ala Oriental Adventures, Forgotten Realms or The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game rather than stat differences.
Sure, there's some variety, but not as much as there initially appears, and certainly not as much as you see in a typical D&D setting. Personally, I'm a fan of using less races, but making cultural distinctions within races by creating cultural units that would work similar to Wheel of Time backgrounds, or Oriental Adventures clans.
Last edited:
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Joshua wrote:
Quote:
"I quite agree. Currently the spectrum seen in, say, Forgotten Realms borders on ridiculous."
____________________________________________________
End Quote.
I totally agree, Joshua. It is just that sense of the ridiculous that cries out in its incongruity that motivated me to post the thread.
I like some variety in races, and don't restrict it as much as some do, but I can't see five varieties of everything. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Joshua wrote:
Quote:
"I quite agree. Currently the spectrum seen in, say, Forgotten Realms borders on ridiculous."
____________________________________________________
End Quote.
I totally agree, Joshua. It is just that sense of the ridiculous that cries out in its incongruity that motivated me to post the thread.
I like some variety in races, and don't restrict it as much as some do, but I can't see five varieties of everything. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Desdichado
Hero
Did I kill this thread or something? 
I thought this was a fascinating topic. For a campaign I'm developing in the back of my head (because I'm always doing that) I'm thinking of using Wheel of Time style backgrounds much more extensively, even using it for other races in place of sub-races, much like I hinted at above. Has anyone tried a similar strategy?
EDIT: Curse you, SHARK! posting simultaneously to me so my own post is superfluous! What do you think of my suggestion for creating variety without having all the subraces?
I thought this was a fascinating topic. For a campaign I'm developing in the back of my head (because I'm always doing that) I'm thinking of using Wheel of Time style backgrounds much more extensively, even using it for other races in place of sub-races, much like I hinted at above. Has anyone tried a similar strategy?EDIT: Curse you, SHARK! posting simultaneously to me so my own post is superfluous! What do you think of my suggestion for creating variety without having all the subraces?
Last edited:
Psion
Adventurer
I wasn't aware that having them live together was in any way standard... except for goblins, who seem to be everybody's whipping boys.
IMC, each is a real culture, some with multiple nations and their own territories. Some are oppressed and live within the territories of other races. But with the exception of goblins are everyones lackey/pest, I never intermingled them.
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
I agree with you, and I've made a lot of the same decisions that others have mentioned:
- Goblins, Orcs, and Hobgoblins are all variations on one race, heading up in toughness.
- Bugbears only inhabit certain areas - they tend to be more common in the forests and foothills while the goblinoids rule the mountains.
- Gnolls (and their Flind leaders) are the humanoid of choice on the open plains. I like the idea of Flinds being Monks with their Flindbar/Nunchuks.
- Ogres are fairly common all over, but not in great numbers.
- I use all the PHB races, but gnomes and halflings are pretty rare, at least in the main areas of the campaign. It's primarily Humans, Elves, and Dwarves.
- With Elves, I use the Grey/High/Wood distinctions, but Grey Elves are dying out, and Wood Elves are very reclusive in the deep forests, so High Elves are 90% of what people meet.
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Ok, Joshua, I like your ideas. In fact, I've done the same. What follows is a rough outline of some details of my own campaign;
Elves
____________________________________________________
I only have three types of elves. I use High Elves, Wood Elves, and Drow Elves.
My High Elves have several different cultures. Loosely united, but distinctly different--culturally, rather than by hard-wired *stats* For example, I have the main High Elf kingdom situated on a large island-group. These elves are Celtic in culture. Druids are critical elements to the society, as are chariot-riding warriors.
The High-Elves to the far north, are very Nordic, with blends of Norman culture. Basicly Norse Vikings with the addition of huge stone castles. They use Druids as well, but there are some differences. The northern Druids are skilled in rune-magic, and there are sects of berzerker-priests. There are also several cults of blood-thirsty women druids that operate in the deep forests.
There is another High-Elf kingdom on the continent of Arathan. They are castle-dwelling, and highly focused on the sea. They have warships that have self-contained pools that hold sea-lions for additional combat support. These elves are very refined in manners, ettiquette, but also much involved with sea-born trade, as well as treaties with various human kingdoms. These elves are also very warlike, and proud.
Another High-Elf culture based in Arathan is very urbanised, with large cities, and high use of everyday magic. They are very sophisticated, but also decadent. They are undergoing a civil war between two factions. One faction, termed derisively as the "Human Faction" is in favor of increased treaties, and involvement with the Vallorean Empire, as well as various human barbarian tribes throughout the area. The other faction, called the "Traditionalists" are not only against the "Human Faction" by being more isolationist, but they also advocate enslaving various human barbarian tribes in the area, and infiltrating the Vallorean Empire with savage guerrilla-war campaigns, designed to roll back Vallorean expansion. This elven kingdom doesn't really have a navy, but they pride themselves on supreme integration of war-wizards, and heavily armoured elven knights.
Another High-Elven culture exists far to the south, and is a very different realm. It is ruled by an elven aristocracy, but has comprehensively integrated various black humans into society, and intermixing with these native humans on a large scale. In addition, they have blended Egyptian-like customs, and embraced a blend of elven and Egyptian-like religion. This elven kingdom also has intermixed with coffee-skinned, Pheonician-like humans. They have a huge navy, and extensive trade networks. These elves have packs of trained war-baboons, and a type of hornless, herbivorous dinosaur, somewhat larger than a rhino, that they use for cavalry. Here, no druids exist, but a powerful and ancient priesthood. Female priestesses are especially powerful, politically speaking. They have cities of marble, ivory, gold, and cedar.
Wood Elves exist primarily in the northern forests of Arathan, and they are more primitive in culture. They are different stat-wise from High Elves, though inter-breeding is possible. These Wood Elves are similar to Germanic barbarian tribes, and have prodigious armies of savage berzerker warriors, as well as archers, and they paint themselves, and have groups of powerful Druids that practice human-sacrifice on a limited basis. They also have groups of animal-totem Sorcerers that prowl the dark forests.
Drow Elves are similar to High Elves, however, they have been changed by centuries of living underground, and in other ways as well. Drow Elves have Deep-Earth kingdoms of sophisticated cities and fortresses, with sweeping architecture, and superior magical integration. They have also mated extensively with Demons, and have high populations of half-fiends.
A sub-branch of Drow Culture, is a surface-dwelling kingdom that has established a powerful kingdom in a vast rain-forest far to the south of the continent of Arathan. This rain-forest dwelling kingdom of Drow have also dominated and intermixed with a huge tribe of black humans, as well as introduced Demonic breeding. The resulting kingdom is a mix of African shamanism, and Drow religion. They have huge Ziggurats, and keep millions of slaves. They regularly practice human sacrifice, and employ Georgosaurus cavalry. (Essentially a smaller version of Tyrannosaurus Rex as cavalry) They have huge cities, and have arenas of gladiators to entertain the masses of screaming, blood-thirsty citizens. There are no stat differences, but differences in society, and religion. This Drow Kingdom is ruled by a king and queen, and have several orders of Necromancers serving the kingdom. They still have a female-dominated priesthood, but the religion contains male and female deities. The priesthood is composed of female Drow and half-Drow Clerics.
Dwarves
____________________________________________________
Dwarves are only one type, stat-wise. They primarily live in mountain-kingdoms based on a monarchy. However, there are also barbarian kingdoms of Dwarves that live in the far North. They have similarities with Northern Human barbarians, but they do have mountain homes, both underground, and in above ground fortress-cities. These Dwarves have berzerker-orders, rune-priests, as well as groups of skilled Rangers that patrol the cold forest frontiers of their domains. These Dwarves slaughter Orcs with no mercy, and also have had wars with the High-Elves, and humans alike.
More south, near the Vallorean Empire, the Dwarves have become increasingly sophisticated. They have extensive hallowed out realms in the deep-earth, and in the surface of the great mountains as well. They trade extensively with humans and elves alike.
____________________________________________________
I also have Pheonician-like Minotaurs, Elephant people that live in neatly organized herd-cities, where they live communally. I also have kingdoms of Hippo people that live to the south, and they have Egyptian-influanced cities. These are just some rough notes, though.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Ok, Joshua, I like your ideas. In fact, I've done the same. What follows is a rough outline of some details of my own campaign;
Elves
____________________________________________________
I only have three types of elves. I use High Elves, Wood Elves, and Drow Elves.
My High Elves have several different cultures. Loosely united, but distinctly different--culturally, rather than by hard-wired *stats* For example, I have the main High Elf kingdom situated on a large island-group. These elves are Celtic in culture. Druids are critical elements to the society, as are chariot-riding warriors.
The High-Elves to the far north, are very Nordic, with blends of Norman culture. Basicly Norse Vikings with the addition of huge stone castles. They use Druids as well, but there are some differences. The northern Druids are skilled in rune-magic, and there are sects of berzerker-priests. There are also several cults of blood-thirsty women druids that operate in the deep forests.
There is another High-Elf kingdom on the continent of Arathan. They are castle-dwelling, and highly focused on the sea. They have warships that have self-contained pools that hold sea-lions for additional combat support. These elves are very refined in manners, ettiquette, but also much involved with sea-born trade, as well as treaties with various human kingdoms. These elves are also very warlike, and proud.
Another High-Elf culture based in Arathan is very urbanised, with large cities, and high use of everyday magic. They are very sophisticated, but also decadent. They are undergoing a civil war between two factions. One faction, termed derisively as the "Human Faction" is in favor of increased treaties, and involvement with the Vallorean Empire, as well as various human barbarian tribes throughout the area. The other faction, called the "Traditionalists" are not only against the "Human Faction" by being more isolationist, but they also advocate enslaving various human barbarian tribes in the area, and infiltrating the Vallorean Empire with savage guerrilla-war campaigns, designed to roll back Vallorean expansion. This elven kingdom doesn't really have a navy, but they pride themselves on supreme integration of war-wizards, and heavily armoured elven knights.
Another High-Elven culture exists far to the south, and is a very different realm. It is ruled by an elven aristocracy, but has comprehensively integrated various black humans into society, and intermixing with these native humans on a large scale. In addition, they have blended Egyptian-like customs, and embraced a blend of elven and Egyptian-like religion. This elven kingdom also has intermixed with coffee-skinned, Pheonician-like humans. They have a huge navy, and extensive trade networks. These elves have packs of trained war-baboons, and a type of hornless, herbivorous dinosaur, somewhat larger than a rhino, that they use for cavalry. Here, no druids exist, but a powerful and ancient priesthood. Female priestesses are especially powerful, politically speaking. They have cities of marble, ivory, gold, and cedar.
Wood Elves exist primarily in the northern forests of Arathan, and they are more primitive in culture. They are different stat-wise from High Elves, though inter-breeding is possible. These Wood Elves are similar to Germanic barbarian tribes, and have prodigious armies of savage berzerker warriors, as well as archers, and they paint themselves, and have groups of powerful Druids that practice human-sacrifice on a limited basis. They also have groups of animal-totem Sorcerers that prowl the dark forests.
Drow Elves are similar to High Elves, however, they have been changed by centuries of living underground, and in other ways as well. Drow Elves have Deep-Earth kingdoms of sophisticated cities and fortresses, with sweeping architecture, and superior magical integration. They have also mated extensively with Demons, and have high populations of half-fiends.
A sub-branch of Drow Culture, is a surface-dwelling kingdom that has established a powerful kingdom in a vast rain-forest far to the south of the continent of Arathan. This rain-forest dwelling kingdom of Drow have also dominated and intermixed with a huge tribe of black humans, as well as introduced Demonic breeding. The resulting kingdom is a mix of African shamanism, and Drow religion. They have huge Ziggurats, and keep millions of slaves. They regularly practice human sacrifice, and employ Georgosaurus cavalry. (Essentially a smaller version of Tyrannosaurus Rex as cavalry) They have huge cities, and have arenas of gladiators to entertain the masses of screaming, blood-thirsty citizens. There are no stat differences, but differences in society, and religion. This Drow Kingdom is ruled by a king and queen, and have several orders of Necromancers serving the kingdom. They still have a female-dominated priesthood, but the religion contains male and female deities. The priesthood is composed of female Drow and half-Drow Clerics.
Dwarves
____________________________________________________
Dwarves are only one type, stat-wise. They primarily live in mountain-kingdoms based on a monarchy. However, there are also barbarian kingdoms of Dwarves that live in the far North. They have similarities with Northern Human barbarians, but they do have mountain homes, both underground, and in above ground fortress-cities. These Dwarves have berzerker-orders, rune-priests, as well as groups of skilled Rangers that patrol the cold forest frontiers of their domains. These Dwarves slaughter Orcs with no mercy, and also have had wars with the High-Elves, and humans alike.
More south, near the Vallorean Empire, the Dwarves have become increasingly sophisticated. They have extensive hallowed out realms in the deep-earth, and in the surface of the great mountains as well. They trade extensively with humans and elves alike.
____________________________________________________
I also have Pheonician-like Minotaurs, Elephant people that live in neatly organized herd-cities, where they live communally. I also have kingdoms of Hippo people that live to the south, and they have Egyptian-influanced cities. These are just some rough notes, though.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Re: Slash and Burn Aaron!
You though Aaron was trimming you ain't seen nothing yet.
I got rid of all of my humanoid races and replaced them with different varietys of Dark Fae (Unseliegh Goblins). Demi Humans exists, Halflings comes from another plane, As do Orcs (use half orc stats as there are no halforcs). All of the others are Fae races Mortal, like dwarves and Half Elves or immortal like the others..
Doing that enabled me to have my critter assortment but still have a sane ecology.
SHARK said:Greetings!
Damn, Aaron, you have trimmed it down!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
You though Aaron was trimming you ain't seen nothing yet.
I got rid of all of my humanoid races and replaced them with different varietys of Dark Fae (Unseliegh Goblins). Demi Humans exists, Halflings comes from another plane, As do Orcs (use half orc stats as there are no halforcs). All of the others are Fae races Mortal, like dwarves and Half Elves or immortal like the others..
Doing that enabled me to have my critter assortment but still have a sane ecology.
Desdichado
Hero
Now you're talking, SHARK! Do you do anything at all to differentiate these cultures mechanically? Regional feats or anything like that?
Oddly enough, if I recall, your campaign is one of the few that could stand to have racial variety. Isn't your campaign world Jupiter-sized?
Oddly enough, if I recall, your campaign is one of the few that could stand to have racial variety. Isn't your campaign world Jupiter-sized?
