Monsters ECL

[Lareit]

Is there a way to consistently determine a monsters ECL.
I tried using CR and HD combined and alone to see if there was a formula that could be derived using the examples in the Dungeon Master's Guidebook but could not deduct any semblance of a consistant formula.

My main intrest lies in Salamanders, Slaadi and Illithid, but this is for virtually any monster useable. I can not find a consistant way to determine their ECL. I'm not even certain how certain monsters have such a high ecl at times while others are so much lower.

I'm also curious about monster HD and character classes. Are they forced to remain at their base HD prior to taking a chr class or can they advance in their monster HD any and then take a chr class. If they do advance any, does that also determine how many levels their class could obtain from then on?
EX:Monster with base 12HD takes 20 levels of fighter.
Could same monster who advanced to 16HD before becomming a fighter gain 20 levels or would they be limited to 16 levels.

Thanks for your time.

 

[dcollins]

No, there is not.

 

[Spatula]

My main intrest lies in Salamanders, Slaadi and Illithid, but this is for virtually any monster useable. I can not find a consistant way to determine their ECL. I'm not even certain how certain monsters have such a high ecl at times while others are so much lower.

"At times"? ECL doesn't fluctuate. Unless you mean the pubilshed ECL adjustments, which have gone through some revisions since the DMG was first released. The current starting ECLs for the above races (as of Savage Species) is:

Salamander, flamebrother: 7
Slaadi, blue: 14
Slaadi, grey: 16
Slaadi, green: 16
Slaadi, red: 13
Illithid: 15

Savage Species has guidelines for determining ECL adjustments, but no hard and fast rules.

Soldarin has an ECL calculator at:
http://soldarin.tripod.com/rpgpages/id5.html
that tries to codify how much certain abilities are 'worth'. I'm not sure where his numbers came from, though.

I'm also curious about monster HD and character classes. Are they forced to remain at their base HD prior to taking a chr class or can they advance in their monster HD any and then take a chr class. If they do advance any, does that also determine how many levels their class could obtain from then on?
EX:Monster with base 12HD takes 20 levels of fighter.
Could same monster who advanced to 16HD before becomming a fighter gain 20 levels or would they be limited to 16 levels.

If you're using the Epic HB, there's no 20th level limit on the classes. A monster PC would be considered 'epic' as soon as its effective character level is 21+, regardless of its number of HD.

 

[kreynolds]

Lareit, if you're feeling really brave, you can also take a look at Upper_Krusts system in the House Rules forum. It isn't finished, but it's shaping up quite a bit. The greatest drawback, however, is that it changes the way you look at EL and CR (but not in a bad way).

 

[Gilwen]

To calculate the ECL of a creature I normally double the CR and may make an adjustment of +/- 1 by comparing it to known ECL's of other creatures.

Bryan

 

[Leopold]

it's actually not that difficult to do ECL/LA's for critters once you gt the hang of it. The hard part is the balancing/acid test for them once they are done. I've got a book (well several of them) with all the critters from lots and lots of monster d20 books that will have a savage species like breakdown for them.

For example, let's say you want to play a flumph at first level or a astral shark. Well ya can now if you so choose. It's about 50% done and I need more monsters as I want to have this thing about 500 monsters full. I will prolly get there and it will all change when 3.5 hits but it will give people the chance to play monsters all over again.

Well drop me a line if you need a certain monster done with ECL, after 200 of them I think i got a small grasp on the nuances of the system

 

[Will]

One thing that helps to differentiate is look at all abilities that are once per day or 'all the time,' then look at the abilities that are handy but not powerful.

CR will be benefitted by 'once per day' and 'at will' abilities almost the same amount. In a given encounter, a creature is unlikely to get much repeat use even if the ability is at will (with some exceptions, of course).

Other abilities might have very little impact on an encounter but be very handy for an adventurer. Consider an ability to heal quickly. In an encounter, if it's not regeneration, it's not going to make any real impact. For an adventure, though, healing quickly is fantastically useful.

A good case in point are animals. They are generally 1/2 their HD as CR. However, if such a being were intelligent and had class levels, or even just under the control of a PC, the benefit of stats would be worth a lot more.

Hope this helps at all.