D&D General Adjusting Constitution

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't like the constitution score at first level.
But just having max hit die per level + constitution modifier seems solid.

That is precisely what makes HP grow to such ridiculous amounts.

By eliminating the +CON to HP per level, but giving the whole score at first level, you make 1st level characters more robust, but higher level characters less robust. Which, y'know, is an actual issue real people have with 5e, that levels 1 and 2 (or even 3 and 4!) are ridiculously fragile, while allegedly it's "impossible" to kill higher level characters.

So long as the character has at least a +2 CON mod, they'll get more than their Constitution score after just level 8. So you're effectively still giving them that. It just doesn't kick in until endgame. Even for a character with merely +1, they'll still get an amount equal to their Constitution score by level 12.

Big chunk for early survival. Low scaling for smaller top end numbers. Oh, and because death saves DON'T reset when you stand back up, 4e hard averted the "whack a mole" healing problem despite still having "healing starts from 0."

4e was, in many ways, more deadly than 5e at levels other than the first 1-4, where newbies are still learning the ropes.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

this is only an idea that formed literally just as i was reading so it's not especially thought out but what if CON actually directly influenced the size of your Hit Die? 8 CON is the baseline you get your class's normal hit die size, but at 12, 16 and 20 you bump up the size of your HD up to a max of d12?

honestly i would bring back d4HD and reduce the size of most of the fullcasters die's to incentivise them to invest in CON more while reducing the MAD of martials, your CON saves and OP's wound points are then directly based off the size of your HD rather than CON itself (though you do get a bonus to both of those at 10, 14 and 18 CON so it's not entirely useless to martials)

Casters really don't need any more reason to invest in Constitution. They already want it for Concentration checks, and given there aren't that many fears they want, a starting 12 boosted to 14 or even 16 is quite common if you reach high level.

 

[cbwjm]

Something that I've done in the past, which doesn't adjust constitution, is make 1st level hit points equal to twice your class starting hit points + your constitution modifier. It means a Barbarian with 16 Con is going to begin with 27 hit points at level one. Next time I run a campaign I've been contemplating removing hit dice altogether and instead instituting the BG3 short rest which simply restores 50% of your total hit points but you only get two of them each day. If I really wanted to make changes I'd reintroduce healing surges with these starting hit points but I feel like that'd be too much work.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That is precisely what makes HP grow to such ridiculous amounts.

constitution modifier only once at first level.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

constitution modifier only once at first level.

Given you're also maximizing hit dice at every level...it's still going to be a crapload of HP.

 

[Merlecory]

Casters really don't need any more reason to invest in Constitution. They already want it for Concentration checks, and given there aren't that many fears they want, a starting 12 boosted to 14 or even 16 is quite common if you reach high level.

Perhaps there is an avenue to make otehr stats moer appealing? Reducing the amount that Medim armour increases your AC, but increasing the max DEX bonus might get at least clerics to look at DEX before CON.

Bards could maybe get some benefit from INT? I might suggest that tey get skills bonuses relating to INT, like maybe replacing expertise with +INT mod to skills.

Maybe Sorcerers could use STR for metamagic related features. To be a conduit of creation, you need to physically be strong.

Wizardsa are a tough nut to crack though. Bookish nerds don't scream bonuses from any other stat. Is there a way to incentivize them to not have a dump stat then?

 

[Horwath]

Given you're also maximizing hit dice at every level...it's still going to be a crapload of HP.

if the high HPs are followed by DPS output, then there is no problem with HP bloat.
And by higher DPS, more attacks are better than single huge damage attack.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Given you're also maximizing hit dice at every level...it's still going to be a crapload of HP.

Which I made my piece with.

I just answered to the opening post.

I could also live with half as much hp per level. Or capping the progression at level 11+.
And just increasing the number of hit dice for recovery.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Perhaps there is an avenue to make otehr stats moer appealing? Reducing the amount that Medim armour increases your AC, but increasing the max DEX bonus might get at least clerics to look at DEX before CON.

Bards could maybe get some benefit from INT? I might suggest that tey get skills bonuses relating to INT, like maybe replacing expertise with +INT mod to skills.

Maybe Sorcerers could use STR for metamagic related features. To be a conduit of creation, you need to physically be strong.

Wizardsa are a tough nut to crack though. Bookish nerds don't scream bonuses from any other stat. Is there a way to incentivize them to not have a dump stat then?

In 4e, Wizards obviously wanted Intelligence, but they might also value Constitution (Staff of Defense, defense-focused, or Tome of Binding, damage-focused via summoned beings), Wisdom (Orb of Imposition, control-focused), Dexterity (Wand of Accuracy, damage-focused), or Charisma (Orb of Deception, flexible depending on what your Wizard illusion powers did).

So, at least for me, I'd tie it to spell school. Get rid of Arcane Recovery, and give the Wizard actually weighty subclass features in its place that key off of secondary stats. Divination should obviously key off Wisdom--needing to not merely cognitively process your prognostications, but truly understand them. Illusion would likewise be Charisma...I assume I don't have to explain why. Abjuration would make sense for Con, but since you want to encourage non-"core" stats, perhaps Strength--make Abjurers an actual "warrior wizard" type that wants to augment their spells with their own physical strength? And then Evocation would make sense as Dexterity.

Perhaps have Necromancy relate to Constitution because it has blood-price effects for its subclass features? Or Transmutation, because it's about manipulating physical bodies? That'd still leave Enchantment and Conjuration and whichever of the previous two aren't linked to Con. I could see Conjuration being a second Cha subclass ("leadership" of your summoned creatures), and Transmutation being Wisdom instead of Constitution because you need to know anatomy, physiology, and just the right ways to change things (e.g. the way transmutation is explained by Professor McGonagall in the HP books). From there, it's just a matter of figuring out where Enchantment would fall.

 

[Horwath]

I could also live with half as much hp per level. Or capping the progression at level 11+.
And just increasing the number of hit dice for recovery.

That also works,
but with more HPs being targeted by more(not really bigger) attacks reduces slightly non-reliability of d20.

300HP vs 30 attacks is more predictable than 100HP vs 10 attacks.