D&D 5E Monsters w/ Magic Items?

[Oofta]

You aren't missing anything, but do understand that rules are meant to be a guideline and the ultimate Rule 0 is that the DM has the final word.

It should go without saying that a DM can always override the rules.

But there's a big difference between "this is how I run it in my campaign" and "this is how the rules work".

The post that started it all:

Um no, this refers generally to stuff like armor and helmets and boots. And items only resize within a single size group, such as Medium for PCs. So a suit of armor will magically resize from a small halfling up to a big half-orc, but not down to a pixie or up to a giant.

Pretty much all of that is pure house ruling, which is fine. But there's 0 mention in the DMG of magic items only resizing to fit humanoids, size restrictions or anything in that post. In fact they go out of the way to show how items could work on a creature that has tentacles.

Giving an example of how you run something in your home campaign is fine. Adding rules and restrictions that don't exist as if it's written in the DMG somewhere? Expect people to challenge it.

 

[Maxperson]

This is not a rule, it is a suggestion.

The rule is that the items resize with no limitations with regard to humanoid shapes, so a ring made to fit a pixie will resize to fit a giant. The suggestion is that the DM create his own limitations if they make sense to him. With regard to non-humans, the rule is to for the DM to use discretion and gives two examples which don't have anything to do with resizing, which was the subject of this debate.

The humanoid v. non-humanoid issue is not one of re-sizing at all, but of a complete change of functionality. You threw a completely different issue into the discussion, which caused some confusion.

The dwarf and Drow examples in the DMG are there to show how one might restrict something from all humanoids to specific humanoids. That does nothing for humanoid versus non-humanoid. The DMG says the wearing of a magic item by a non-humanoid is purely DM discretion and I use the obvious method to determine that, whether a creature is listed as a humanoid in the MM or not. All PC races, for now, are automatically humanoid, and do not need any DM discretion in general. Giants are not classified as Humanoid, either in the MM or in the Ranger class for it's chosen enemies, so your use of Giant as an example is not valid.

First off, arguing that giants are not humanoid in the context of resizing is disingenuous at best. They are humanoid in shape, which is all magic items care about. Second, that argument fails on the "does it make sense" front as well. As giants have a humanoid shape, it makes sense that they would be able to use humanoid armor, rings, boots, etc. since they have all the necessary appendages. The examples are of non-humanoids that are not humanoid in shape, so clearly that section is talking about whether or not the DM things a jelly can wear the magic armor, not a giant.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/935327933979287554

By the rules, a creature is what the stat block says it is. So no matter how human something may look, by the rules, it is not a humanoid if the stat block does not say so. This is where the DM discretion comes in for whether you as DM want a giant or a pixie or an ogre or a dragon or whatever other non-humanoid creature to be wearing a magic item that you want to be able to resize to work for a humanoid creature/PC. The DMG should really have included a more mundane example of this and not just the two extreme examples of a non-humanoid attempting to wear a magic item.

 

[Maxperson]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/935327933979287554

By the rules, a creature is what the stat block says it is. So no matter how human something may look, by the rules, it is not a humanoid if the stat block does not say so.

Which is entirely irrelevant to the section dealing with non-humanoids. That portion talks about what makes sense and what doesn't, specifying through example that it is talking about creatures without humanoid shape.

 

[Sunseeker]

Yes. Absolutely yes. 115% yes!

For lower level creatures it's often a matter of "oooo shiny!" or "This sword extra pointy!" For higher level characters are just as, if not smarter than the players, they're not going to pass up using awesome loot just because some book says they're supposed to sleep on it. Besides, it's a great way for the players to understand what an item does and how dangerous it could be.

I don't usually deck my monsters out, it's just a lot of work, if I'm going to do that much work, I prefer to give them unique special abilities rather than magical items. Sort of that whole opportunity cost for the party: Yeah you killed the bad-guy, but you also lost the secret to the Question of Life.

 

[Caliban]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/935327933979287554

By the rules, a creature is what the stat block says it is. So no matter how human something may look, by the rules, it is not a humanoid if the stat block does not say so. This is where the DM discretion comes in for whether you as DM want a giant or a pixie or an ogre or a dragon or whatever other non-humanoid creature to be wearing a magic item that you want to be able to resize to work for a humanoid creature/PC. The DMG should really have included a more mundane example of this and not just the two extreme examples of a non-humanoid attempting to wear a magic item.

You are confusing "humanoid" as in "shaped like a human" with "humanoid" as in the MM creature classification. They aren't the same thing, context matters. And I'm not sure why you think it's even relevant.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Fluff:

You are confusing "humanoid" as in "shaped like a human"

Rules:

with "humanoid" as in the MM creature classification.

Do you run your game by the rules or by the fluff?

The classification of Humanoid in the rules also seems to apply to no creatures bigger than Medium size, so in my interpretation, no magic item that can be worn will size itself larger than the limits of what is a Medium size creature. So no, that giant is NOT going to take the ring off a halfling's little finger and have it suddenly grow big enough to fit on his huge finger.

 

[Caliban]

Do you run your game by the rules or by the fluff?

*shrug* you seem to do neither. Apparently you run your game by your personal whim.

The classification of Humanoid in the rules also seems to apply to no creatures bigger than Medium size, so in my interpretation, no magic item that can be worn will size itself larger than the limits of what is a Medium size creature. So no, that giant is NOT going to take the ring off a halfling's little finger and have it suddenly grow big enough to fit on his huge finger.

So you don't run the game by the rules. Nothing in the resizing rules mentions "humanoid" as a requirement.

It's OK if that is the way you want to run it, but please don't pretend it's the rules.

 

[CapnZapp]

This discussion is completely backwards.

The DMG is written from the point of view that you WANT to be inclusive; to use the same magic item with as many body shapes and sizes as possible, while still making a nod to reality - the part about a fish tail not being able to wear boots etc.

If you want the opposite (an Elf not being able to Don Dwarf armor), then you don't need the rules - they're not written for you.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Maxperson]

Fluff:

Rules:

Do you run your game by the rules or by the fluff?

The fluff here is the rule. The rule is that unless the creature is radically different, a snake not being able to wear boots, the item resizes and fits. A giant has two feet, so boots made for a gnome would resize and fit per the RULE. The rule has nothing to do with specific racial classifications.

The classification of Humanoid in the rules also seems to apply to no creatures bigger than Medium size, so in my interpretation, no magic item that can be worn will size itself larger than the limits of what is a Medium size creature. So no, that giant is NOT going to take the ring off a halfling's little finger and have it suddenly grow big enough to fit on his huge finger.

Yes, we get that you are confused by the rule. Look at the examples. Re-read them until you get it.