Monsters with <1 HD

[the Jester]

How do you figure a monster's BAB if it's less than one HD? How about its base saves?

Say I make an outsider with 1/2 HD- it its BAB +1 or +0? Does the round down rule apply here or what?

What about its base saves? Are they all +2 or +1 or +0?

Is there an official rule on this anywhere?

Thanks!

 

[Krishnath]

That is why one never makes a creature with less than 1HD

But I assume you act as though the creature had 1HD. I'm not entirely sure though, so don't take my word for it.

 

[Gez]

From the kobold and animals example, we could reverse engineer:

BAB is 0 -- but that could be for 0 HD as well as 1 HD, since humanoids and animals don't have full BAB progression. So, BAB is useless.

Saves: The kobold has Fort +0 Ref +1 Will +2. Once ability modifiers are removed, we're left with one good save -- so that's considered as a full HD.

Skills: Once racial, and size bonus as well as ability modifier, the Kobold has 6 skill points: 3 in Hide and 3 in Move Silently (a wise choice). This is again as for a full HD.

Feat: The Kobold has one, like a 1 HD creature.

Conclusion: less than 1 HD == 1 HD for purpose of BAB, saves, skills and feats.

 

[the Jester]

Thanks for the assist...

 

[Geocorona]

This is an important question. I've been treating partial HD monsters as 0 BAB. Are there any partial HD Monstrous Humanoids or Magical Beasts in the SRD to verify this?

 

[Gez]

This is an important question. I've been treating partial HD monsters as 0 BAB. Are there any partial HD Monstrous Humanoids or Magical Beasts in the SRD to verify this?

Nah. Only animals, plus the kobold, and maybe some vermin.

All evidence I found point toward less than 1 HD is considered to be 1 HD for all things that depends on number of HD, except hit points (and then again, I think the Con modifier is featured once, rather than, say, one half time).

 

[Geocorona]

But the "always round down" rule used with the fighter formula (BAB = HD) seems to point to 0.

 

[Gez]

But the "always round down" rule used with the fighter formula (BAB = HD) seems to point to 0.

Sometimes, "always round down" has an addenda "minimum 1". You see that for damage inflicted when you have a Str penalty, or for hit point by HD, etc.

Mechanically speaking, creatures with less than 1 HD are considered to enjoy 1 full and complete and total and whole HD for things that depends on number of HD, like BAB, base saves, skill points, and max skill ranks.

IMO, this is the rules as they are. If you want them to work otherwise, fine. I don't think there are enough creatures concerned by that for this to be a real problem. Or do you really have a lot of dragons, magical beasts, outsiders and other full bab critters with less than 1 HD ?

 

[BOZ]

yeah, you've got a point. playing monsters as "0 HD" can lead to some problems. you're better off as considering them 1HD monsters with fewer HP and thus a lower CR.

 

[Geocorona]

IMO, this is the rules as they are. If you want them to work otherwise, fine. I don't think there are enough creatures concerned by that for this to be a real problem. Or do you really have a lot of dragons, magical beasts, outsiders and other full bab critters with less than 1 HD ?

Thanks for the answer, but my opinion or your opinion isn't really enough. I don't intend to create any partial HD creatures with fighter BAB, but I am programming a monster maker that will do this, so I need to know the official rule.