Monstrous Regeneration vs. Harm: possible?

[Dark Dragon]

Hi,

we're quite nerfed about our PCs being constantly subject of Harm spells by our DM's nasty little clerics.

The situation: The spell Monstrous Regeneration (MoF) turns all damage into subdual damage, except fire and acid damage. Harm brings a subject to d4 HP. We're using a house rule that Harm allows a will save, on a success, the victim is dealt 1d8+1 points of damage per caster level (but has always d4 HPs left).

My question: Is the PHB version of Harm dealing damage and would Monstrous Regeneration break the insta-kill combo Harm - Q ILW / melee attack / ...?

 

[Tiberius]

I don't think Monstrous Regeneration would affect Harm, as it reduces the target to 1d4 HP rather than deals 100% - 1d4 HP worth of damage to the target. To put it in pseudocode, the PH version looks like this:

void Harm(target.hp)
{
target.hp = 1d4;
};

rather than:

void Harm(target.hp)
{
target.hp = target.hp - (target.hp - 1d4);
};

I'm not sure if that is helpful, but it's how I see it.

-Tiberius

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just use the Version 3.5, which deals 10 Points of Damage (max 150) to the Target, Will save for half. It never reduces a target to zero HP.

 

[Kraedin]

From the SRD:

Harm
Necromancy
Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6, Drd 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Harm damages a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points.
If used on an undead creature (requires a successful touch attack), harm acts like heal.

 

[andargor]

From the SRD:

Harm
Necromancy
Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6, Drd 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Harm damages a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points.
If used on an undead creature (requires a successful touch attack), harm acts like heal.

Maybe if you bold the next five words, your opinion would change?

Andargor

 

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe if you bold the next five words, your opinion would change?

"a subject with negative energy"?

-Hyp.

 

[andargor]

"a subject with negative energy"?

-Hyp.

Unless I misunderstood Kraedin's post (if so, I apologize), I meant to point out that a target under the effects of Monstrous Regeneration would take all but 1d4 HP in subdual damage, not real damage, from Harm.

Andargor

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unless I misunderstood Kraedin's post (if so, I apologize), I meant to point out that a target under the effects of Monstrous Regeneration would take all but 1d4 HP in subdual damage, not real damage, from Harm.

I assumed that was the point Kraedin was making in the first place...

Noting that the idea that Harm 'sets' hit points to a value (as illustrated by Tiberius) is, in fact, a fallacy, and that the spell does indeed deal damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Unless I misunderstood Kraedin's post (if so, I apologize), I meant to point out that a target under the effects of Monstrous Regeneration would take all but 1d4 HP in subdual damage, not real damage, from Harm.

Andargor

That's why HyperSmurf is confused - you disagreed with him, but he's arguing the exact same point you are...

 

[rhammer2]

Wouldn't, or a least shouldn't work. All the energy forms should penetrate regeneration, they all create damage similar to fire or acid. Negative energy damage destroys either the life force or the living tissue, I don't see how that is any different from fire or acid.

Hi,

we're quite nerfed about our PCs being constantly subject of Harm spells by our DM's nasty little clerics.

The situation: The spell Monstrous Regeneration (MoF) turns all damage into subdual damage, except fire and acid damage. Harm brings a subject to d4 HP. We're using a house rule that Harm allows a will save, on a success, the victim is dealt 1d8+1 points of damage per caster level (but has always d4 HPs left).

My question: Is the PHB version of Harm dealing damage and would Monstrous Regeneration break the insta-kill combo Harm - Q ILW / melee attack / ...?