Monte Cook and Tracy Hickman

[wilrich]

Hello all! Infrequent poster, but a vague memory came to me today that I'd like some help focusing.

Some years ago (I think it was pre-3d edition) did Monte Cook and Tracy Hickman have a "feud" of sorts in Dragon magazine regarding different playing styles? IIRC, it took the form of "dueling letters" or "dueling columns" and it was somewhat heated. Does anyone remember this as well, and, if so, whatthe details were? If there are any links that anyone knows of that contain more information, posting them would be most appreciated! Finally, if people have any thoughts about their "discussion," I'd be interested in hearing those as well (as I recall the differences in game philosophy, etc. were interesting.)

Anyway, I'm just curious, and thought it might provoke some discussion. If it turns out the "feud" occurred when EN World existed, and this has already been discussed to death on these boards, I apologize. In any case, thanks for any thoughts / info anyone can provide!

P.S. I also know that Tracy had serious issues with the Book of Vile Darkness, but I am not referring to that disagreement. This was an earlier disagreement long before The Book of Vile Darkness.

 

[Remus Lupin]

If I recall correctly, it was an article Tracy wrote about being bored with his game and simply randomly opening doors and fighting what was on the other side, without consulting his party or anything. I actually thought the article was very funny at the time, and I imagined it was a good way of breaking through a stalled game session.

Monte had other ideas, and expressed them in a letter to Dragon, to which Tracy responded. All my old issues are stowed in the attic, so I can't give you the issue number. That exchange and the BoVD controversy made me wonder if there isn't just some personal animosity there, or at least conflictive personalities.

 

[Henry]

It was indeed discussed on these forums, but it's been so long ago (prior to the BOVD) that any discussion of it has long since been erased!

I still have the magazines, but I'm afraid I couldn't point them out without some major digging. I do recall that it wasn't an argument, so much as a message forum discussion carried out in the form of a letter column.

Tracy was in favor of shaking things up if the action got stale, and Monte's point of view was not to shake things up to the level of ticking off your friends who might be having a good time with the way things were going.

But as I said, it's been a long time.

 

[johnsemlak]

Any vague notion as to which Dragon issues it was in? Was it before issue 251?

 

[Michael Tree]

Any vague notion as to which Dragon issues it was in? Was it before issue 251?

IIRC it was after 3e came out, so it's probably in the 280s.

Essentially, Hickman wrote an article criticizing the ultra-cautious play style, where players do nothing spontaneous, carefully check every single door and 10' square of dungeon before proceeding, and basically do everything they can possibly do to maximize survival and success rather than taking fun risks. He argued for just charging forward heroically rather than playing it safe, and encouraged bored players to do so despite the caution of the other players.

Monte disagreed with Hickman's condemnation of that play style, arguing that it can be a perfectly legitimate play style. If the majority of players are enjoying it then there's nothing wrong, and a player who charged forward recklessly will just annoy all other others.

 

[rounser]

Essentially, Hickman wrote an article criticizing the ultra-cautious play style, where players do nothing spontaneous, carefully check every single door and 10' square of dungeon before proceeding, and basically do everything they can possibly do to maximize survival and success rather than taking fun risks. He argued for just charging forward heroically rather than playing it safe, and encouraged bored players to do so despite the caution of the other players.

Sounds like it might have a connection to a phrase I've seen quoted somewhere on the internet:
Tracy Hickman says: Kick The Damn Door In!

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Tracy Hickman's original article was published in Dragon #377, and Monte Cook's reply, along with Hickman's response, was published in #281. Mmm, delicious right-of-reply.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Tracy Hickman's original article was published in Dragon #377, and Monte Cook's reply, along with Hickman's response, was published in #281. Mmm, delicious right-of-reply.

Whoa! Monte's prescient? He responded to Tracy Hickman's letter before it was even written? That guy is just amazing!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

All this talk about dueling letters in Dragon got me to remembering those letters from some Greyhawk player about his 320th level wizard, or something, and wanting TSR to make some new monsters for him to kill, since he'd slain all the gods, etc. It was followed up by letters of people claiming their XXXth level character could beat him, or whatever. Does anyone else remember this?

 

[rounser]

All this talk about dueling letters in Dragon got me to remembering those letters from some Greyhawk player about his 320th level wizard, or something, and wanting TSR to make some new monsters for him to kill, since he'd slain all the gods, etc. It was followed up by letters of people claiming their XXXth level character could beat him, or whatever. Does anyone else remember this?

Nope, but I remember a second-hand account of someone demanding on the letters page of Dragon that everyone stop playing in Greyhawk because his character had destroyed it.

I think Gygax did something similar in his last Gord the Rogue novel, actually.

 

[s/LaSH]

All this talk about dueling letters in Dragon got me to remembering those letters from some Greyhawk player about his 320th level wizard, or something, and wanting TSR to make some new monsters for him to kill, since he'd slain all the gods, etc. It was followed up by letters of people claiming their XXXth level character could beat him, or whatever. Does anyone else remember this?

Ah, I remember that. The issues I remember it from are presumably still mouldering in a public library in another city, where I read them in my youth, but I remember. There were people talking about destroying the world and keeping the gods as slaves in their basement. There were people talking about level 18 spells with names like Spirit Rollingpin (used against armies). It was a mix of beautifully creative and horribly overpowered. I think they had an entire lettercolumn devoted to the responses at one point.