Pathfinder 1E Monte Cook joins Pathfinder team

[Wulf Ratbane]

It has been a long time since I really checked this out, but I seem to remember my higher level Fighters still missing often enough to be noteable. That might just be selective memory speaking, but I am really not convinced this is true.

+10 BAB
+4 for STR
+2 magic weapon
+1 weapon focus
11 on the die
-------------
hits 28 AC on average.

Reasonable assumptions built in there? Maybe even a bit under? (Greater weapon focus, prayer, bard song, heroism, flanking, etc.)

And here are all the SRD creatures from CR9 to CR11.

CREATURE				CR	Armor Class
Androsphinx				9      	22
Avoral					9      	24
Black Dragon, Young adult		9      	24
Bone Devil				9      	25
Bronze Dragon, Juvenile			9      	23
Copper Dragon, Juvenile			9      	23
Delver					9      	24
Dire Shark				9      	17
Dragon Turtle				9      	25
Earth Elemental, Greater		9      	20
Elder Tojanida				9      	24
Fire Elemental, Greater			9      	24
Frost Giant				9      	21
Gold Dragon, Young			9      	22
Monstrous Centipede, Colossal		9      	20
Nessian Warhound			9      	24
Night Hag				9      	22
Roc					9      	17
Spirit Naga				9      	16
Squid, Giant				9      	17
Ten-Headed Hydra			9      	20
Triceratops				9      	18
Vrock					9      	22
Water Elemental, Greater		9      	22
Yrthak					9      	18
Zelekhut				9      	27
Animated Object, Colossal		10     	11
Bebilith				10      22
Brass Dragon, Young adult		10     	24
Clay Golem				10      22
Couatl					10      21
Eleven-Headed Hydra			10     	21
Fire Giant				10      23
Formian Myrmarch			10     	28
Guardian Naga				10     	18
Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan		10     	24
Noble Salamander			10      18
Rakshasa				10      21
Red Dragon, Juvenile			10     	24
Silver Dragon, Juvenile			10     	24
White Dragon, Adult			10     	26
Air Elemental, Elder			11     	27
Barbed Devil				11      29
Black Dragon, Adult			11     	27
Blue Dragon, Young adult		11     	26
Cloud Giant				11     	25
Copper Dragon, Young adult		11     	25
Devourer				11      24
Dread Wraith				11     	25
Earth Elemental, Elder			11     	22
Fire Elemental, Elder			11     	25
Gold Dragon, Juvenile			11     	25
Green Dragon, Young adult		11     	25
Harpy Archer, 7th-Level Fighter		11     	23
Hezrou					11      23
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Dire Boar	11      16
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Giant		11      22
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Hybrid Boar	11     	19
Monstrous Spider, Colossal		11      22
Nightmare, Cauchemar			11      26
Retriever				11      21
Stone Golem				11     	26
Troll Hunter, 6th-Level Ranger		11      21
Twelve-Headed Hydra			11      22
Water Elemental, Elder			11      23

So...

Crappy dice?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

+10 BAB
+4 for STR
+2 magic weapon
+1 weapon focus
11 on the die
-------------
hits 28 AC on average.

Reasonable assumptions built in there? Maybe even a bit under? (Greater weapon focus, prayer, bard song, heroism, flanking, etc.)

And here are all the SRD creatures from CR9 to CR11.

CREATURE				CR	Armor Class
Androsphinx				9      	22
Avoral					9      	24
Black Dragon, Young adult		9      	24
Bone Devil				9      	25
Bronze Dragon, Juvenile			9      	23
Copper Dragon, Juvenile			9      	23
Delver					9      	24
Dire Shark				9      	17
Dragon Turtle				9      	25
Earth Elemental, Greater		9      	20
Elder Tojanida				9      	24
Fire Elemental, Greater			9      	24
Frost Giant				9      	21
Gold Dragon, Young			9      	22
Monstrous Centipede, Colossal		9      	20
Nessian Warhound			9      	24
Night Hag				9      	22
Roc					9      	17
Spirit Naga				9      	16
Squid, Giant				9      	17
Ten-Headed Hydra			9      	20
Triceratops				9      	18
Vrock					9      	22
Water Elemental, Greater		9      	22
Yrthak					9      	18
Zelekhut				9      	27
Animated Object, Colossal		10     	11
Bebilith				10      22
Brass Dragon, Young adult		10     	24
Clay Golem				10      22
Couatl					10      21
Eleven-Headed Hydra			10     	21
Fire Giant				10      23
Formian Myrmarch			10     	28
Guardian Naga				10     	18
Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan		10     	24
Noble Salamander			10      18
Rakshasa				10      21
Red Dragon, Juvenile			10     	24
Silver Dragon, Juvenile			10     	24
White Dragon, Adult			10     	26
Air Elemental, Elder			11     	27
Barbed Devil				11      29
Black Dragon, Adult			11     	27
Blue Dragon, Young adult		11     	26
Cloud Giant				11     	25
Copper Dragon, Young adult		11     	25
Devourer				11      24
Dread Wraith				11     	25
Earth Elemental, Elder			11     	22
Fire Elemental, Elder			11     	25
Gold Dragon, Juvenile			11     	25
Green Dragon, Young adult		11     	25
Harpy Archer, 7th-Level Fighter		11     	23
Hezrou					11      23
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Dire Boar	11      16
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Giant		11      22
Hill Giant Dire Wereboar Hybrid Boar	11     	19
Monstrous Spider, Colossal		11      22
Nightmare, Cauchemar			11      26
Retriever				11      21
Stone Golem				11     	26
Troll Hunter, 6th-Level Ranger		11      21
Twelve-Headed Hydra			11      22
Water Elemental, Elder			11      23

So...

Crappy dice?

How can you beat me with facts! I guess crappy dice it was...
I really might have begun confusing the incredible ACs PCs can acquire utilizing the Christmas Tree and the sad reality for monsters...

 

[crazy_cat]

Now that I think about it, I actually prefer the term playing "Pathfinder" over playing "D&D" at least until D&D becomes recognizable as D&D again.

Same here.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

How can you beat me with facts!

Well you know me, I would hate to be accused of being BOMBASTIC.

I really might have begun confusing the incredible ACs PCs can acquire utilizing the Christmas Tree and the sad reality for monsters...

Well, now you're just deliberately provokin' me.

PC armor class exceeds the monsters' average attack roll until 9th level, after which it starts to lose ground, until at 20th level the average AC is 41, and the average monster attack roll is 51.

That's with the Big Six factored in but does not include the Dodge feat, mithril armor, or tower shields. Just "reasonable averages."

I am not gonna go through the trouble of formatting another table of facts for you! Bow before my bombast!

 

[Voadam]

A real pain in my ass.

Thanks for the link, interesting stuff I had never heard of.

 

[joela]

bombast

Bow before my bombast!

It's so...big!

Sorry. Just tried to read -- again! -- that "Homosexuality in Golarion" thread over at Paizo. And I thought the topic on elves and their ear sizes(!) was tired

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well you know me, I would hate to be accused of being BOMBASTIC.



Well, now you're just deliberately provokin' me.

PC armor class exceeds the monsters' average attack roll until 9th level, after which it starts to lose ground, until at 20th level the average AC is 41, and the average monster attack roll is 51.

That's with the Big Six factored in but does not include the Dodge feat, mithril armor, or tower shields. Just "reasonable averages."

I am not gonna go through the trouble of formatting another table of facts for you! Bow before my bombast!

Haha, I tricked you! Now I don't have to look for myself in my attempt to rework the Iron Heroes system! (But this throws out my idea that it could be balanced to give out tokens for enemy misses! At high levels, this becomes useless!)

AC is only a way to avoid infinite power attacks...

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

But the bottom line is: your lack of interest in 3X doesn't change the true value of what is happening here.

So what exactly is happening? Paizo makes a big marketing announcement that they've got one of the fathers of 3rd edition D&D on board as a consultant. Yet people are frothing at the mouth and acting like it's the Second Coming, just because "they've got Monte!"

Right now nobody really knows what Monte's level of involvement with Pathfinder will be, especially as he's "supposedly" retired from the RPG hobby so he could work on his career as a writer. And again, maybe it's my experiences in the corporate environment, but there's a huge gap between "consultant" and somebody that's actually working on the project in question.

If Pathfinder were doing something truly different instead of just changing the curtains on 3e, then I might be a lot more enthused. But they are sticking with a system that fundamentally breaks down not long after 10th level. They're not doing anything revolutionary, just rehashing a lot of what's already out there. So sorry if I don't get worked up into a tizzy over what amounts to a re-hash.

 

[BryonD]

So what exactly is happening? Paizo makes a big marketing announcement that they've got one of the fathers of 3rd edition D&D on board as a consultant. Yet people are frothing at the mouth and acting like it's the Second Coming, just because "they've got Monte!"

"frothing"? "Second Coming"?
I think you are the one using the hyperbole here.

Right now nobody really knows what Monte's level of involvement with Pathfinder will be, especially as he's "supposedly" retired from the RPG hobby so he could work on his career as a writer. And again, maybe it's my experiences in the corporate environment, but there's a huge gap between "consultant" and somebody that's actually working on the project in question.

Speaking as someone with twenty years experience as a consultant in the corporate environment, you are not adequately informed on the level of involvement that can and does exist.

Again, this sounds like nothing more than pure sour grapes. Both Paizo and Monte have stated that he will be providing a level of rules feedback. It doesn't need to be "Monte coming out of retirement to write Pathfinder" to be really good news.

If Pathfinder were doing something truly different instead of just changing the curtains on 3e, then I might be a lot more enthused. But they are sticking with a system that fundamentally breaks down not long after 10th level. They're not doing anything revolutionary, just rehashing a lot of what's already out there. So sorry if I don't get worked up into a tizzy over what amounts to a re-hash.

Obviously, a lot of people strongly disagree with this assessment. Perhaps it is simply your ability to manage the system that breaks down. I know my current Level 15 game is rocking.

But most importantly, no one is asking you to get worked up in a tizzy. Honestly, it would be nice if you would STOP getting worked up in a tizzy in your apparent need to spew misinformation about a topic that you claim doesn't interest you.

 

[Greylock]

I've played with three consecutive DMs over the course of the last some six years who all found that 3.x D&D breaks down after 9th or 10th level and each of whom came up, independently, with an elegant and simple solution for the problem, which is to end campaigns at 9th-10th level, treating that as "name" level, and restarting with new 1st level characters.

Works for us.

hth