"Monte Cook Presents" Iron Heroes?

[Particle_Man]

Hmmm...the Aristotelian virtue ethics model doesn't like one to be too proud (taking credit for what one doesn't do) or too modest (not taking proper credit for what one did do). This was overridden by the later model of modesty being a virtue, but one might interpret it as simply a re-evaluation of what one can take credit for. For example: "it isn't me, but rather god, that should get the credit, since god *made* me. And the universe I happen to be in".

Nietzche (sp?) held that making a virtue of modesty was a trick.

On the other hand, there is the example of people that do heroic actions that seem quite, well, modest. "I did what I felt was right. I am nobody special" from people that sheltered jews from nazis, also the sort of thing you hear from people that do real life daring rescues.

I think that people are arguing from viewpoints that are *both* backed up in our modern society. The jury is still out over which viewpoint will triumph, or if neither will.

 

[Felon]

The things I've been thinking of as "humility" are more the "lack of false pride," "modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit," and "showing deferential respect." There's a huge difference between a lack of false pride (humility) and lack of deserved pride (which seems to be what felon dislikes).

I think you have the right of it, or are at least close.

I say this: I do not find someone "marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit" to be admirable. It is undeniably the most prudent, self-interested demeanor for most us, but people don't merit adulation for taking the path of least resistance, do they?

For those who have the luxury of not having to behave in a meek, modest manner yet choose to do so, I say to each their own, but people also do not merit adulation for being kind enough not to earwig the emotionally insecure by rubbing self-confidence in their faces.

Nor do I have contempt for the "arrogant or prideful" if they have the goods to back it up. I countenance arrogance on a daily basis. Others are often puzzled at how I manage, but all I care about is how useful someone is. The world is chock-full of useless people who hold their humility up as an incentive to like them and deal with them. Show them the door.

Nietzche (sp?) held that making a virtue of modesty was a trick.

Listen to the man.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Listen to the man.

On the other hand, Nietzsche was a complete ass-hole.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Wulf you are racking up points right and left over the last couple of days. Good form.

 

[Teflon Billy]

On the other hand, Nietzsche was a complete ass-hole.

Heh, my friend Michelle, for her 200 level philosophy paper, handed in Friedrich Nietsche: Batshit Looney as a Shithouse rat: an examination.

I thought it was brave. She got a B+

 

[Felon]

On the other hand, Nietzsche was a complete ass-hole.

But did he have the goods?

Heh, my friend Michelle, for her 200 level philosophy paper, handed in Friedrich Nietsche: Batshit Looney as a Shithouse rat: an examination. I thought it was brave. She got a B+

Brave? I'd say downright arrogant. Good for her.

 

[Campbell]

Brave? I'd say downright arrogant. Good for her.

Bravery? Arrogance? What's the difference?

 

[Akrasia]

Heh, my friend Michelle, for her 200 level philosophy paper, handed in Friedrich Nietsche: Batshit Looney as a Shithouse rat: an examination.

I thought it was brave. She got a B+

Good grief! I am about to receive a stack of freshmen final papers on Nietzsche's theory of guilt this Tuesday! (My final period of grading hell for the spring quarter...)

I come to ENWorld to procrastinate and avoid thinking about work ... not to be reminded of it!

Interesting essay title, though. I suspect that my students are too timid to try anything like that.

 

[Akrasia]

On the other hand, Nietzsche was a complete ass-hole.

Actually, in person he was extremely civil, considerate, and polite. You would never have guessed that from his writing, of course!

(In my 'professional opinion', I think he was a mediocre philosopher, but a brilliant psychologist.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Heh, my friend Michelle, for her 200 level philosophy paper, handed in Friedrich Nietsche: Batshit Looney as a Shithouse rat: an examination.

I thought it was brave. She got a B+

Way back in college, we were reading Aristotle's Ethics, and were assigned a paper on the book. I wrote a paper using Artistotle's own logic and arguments to explain why the assignment of that paper was neither a good nor virtuous act.

I got a C. Not because I failed to show knowledge of the material, but because "This is an inappropriate use of Aristotle's logic." :\

I respect professors and teachers. But I cannot stand professors and teachers who cannot think outside their tiny little boxes.