Monte Cook speaks ... and he doesn't hate 3.5!

[Dr_Rictus]

How dare they have the audacity to pretend like the community has been vocal over the last three years in wishing for things like a better balanced Bard or Ranger and a toning down of spells like Harm. No one has ever said that.

None of which required anything on the scope of what WotC's actually doing. No, I think the point goes to Monte on this one. If you buy that a "3.5" version is what fans were actually calling for, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

I myself like many of the changes that they're actually doing, dislike some others, and think that 3 years is an absurdly short amount of time to carry what was fundamentally a very solid game. In short, I agree with Monte on all points as far as I understand him.

 

[TiQuinn]

None of which required anything on the scope of what WotC's actually doing.

There's the rub, isn't it?

Wizards isn't going to make modifications to 3.0 and just release them as a web enhancement, or as a softcover update book. They have a winner if they release it as a revised edition of the hardcover books. It'll probably make it a blockbuster quarter sales-wise for Wizards of the Coast. From an economic aspect, I can't see how anyone can fault them for doing this. From the POV of customer satisfaction, there's divided opinion. How much divided opinion, I have no idea. Even then there's an option for those who don't want to buy the books and just want the rules changes sans glitz.

 

[Psion]

Hey, I don't mind 10 million alt.rangers! I saw a quote somewhere sometime that projected in a year or two 75% of the Internet content would be alt.rangers. The other 25% would remain porn, of course.

Thief! Thief! You stole that from Jim DelRosso on RPGnet! Which, of course, I put in my sig there. (I wanted to put it in my sig here, too, but I'm more obsessed with updating my gripe list. )

 

[Tom Cashel]

3.5E has long since gone to the printer.

Yes, but we know that "nothing is complete or final until you buy the book in the store."

Silly me...I always thought it should have said "until the book goes to the printer," but you know they're going to be fixing all the typos, by hand with red pens, before they ship the books to suppliers and shops.

Anyway...go look at the TV. Every single advertisement is telling you about something you want.

Now, I must sing a song by the great Tom Waits called "Step Right Up":

Step right up
step right up
step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar
one-tenth of a dollar
we got service after sales
You need perfume? we got perfume
how 'bout an engagement ring?
Something for the little lady
something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged furniture
you can drive it away today
Act now, act now
and receive as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills
you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go
going out of business
going out of business
Going out of business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price
skip the middle man
Don't settle for less
How do we do it?
how do we do it?
volume, volume, turn up the volume
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate
Don't be caught with your drawers down
Don't be caught with your drawers down
You can step right up, step right up

That's right, it filets, it chops
It dices, slices, never stops
lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn
and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted facial hair
it gets rid of embarrassing age spots
It delivers a pizza
and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that slipper that's been at large
under the chaise longe for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master
It makes excuses for unwanted lipstick on your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up
it's only a dollar, step right up

'Cause it forges your signature.
If not completely satisfied
mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow thirty days for delivery
don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it
laugh in it, love in it
Swim in it, sleep in it
Live in it, swim in it
laugh in it, love in it
Removes embarrassing stains from contour sheets
that's right
And it entertains visiting relatives
it turns a sandwich into a banquet
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your shorts
change your life
change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Hindu boy
get rid of your wife
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack
see you later alligator
See you later alligator
And it steals your car
It gets rid of your gambling debts, it quits smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions
it never needs ironing
Well it takes weights off hips, bust
thighs, chin, midriff
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job
it is a job
And it strips the phone company free
take ten for five exchange
And it gives you denture breath
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your traveler's checks
It's new, it's improved, it's old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business
never needs winding
Never needs winding
never needs winding
Gets rid of blackheads, the heartbreak of psoriasis
Christ, you don't know the meaning of heartbreak, buddy
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
'Cause it's effective, it's defective
it creates household odors
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your protection
It gives you an erection
it wins the election
Why put up with painful corns any longer?
It's a redeemable coupon, no obligation
no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot
prizes, prizes, prizes, all work guaranteed
How do we do it
how do we do it
how do we do it
how do we do it
We need your business
we're going out of business
We'll give you the business
Get on the business
end of our going-out-of-business sale
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions
batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available
Step right up
step right up
step right up
You got it buddy: the large print giveth
and the small print taketh away
Step right up

 

[Psion]

From an economic aspect, I can't see how anyone can fault them for doing this. From the POV of customer satisfaction, there's divided opinion.

Just so. It baffles me sometimes when people insist customers not see things from a customer standpoint.

 

[Mark]

Originally written by Tom Waits
You got it buddy: the large print giveth
and the small print taketh away

Must be a new Feat...

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Just so. It baffles me sometimes when people insist customers not see things from a customer standpoint.

I'm baffled by that attitude as well. As a consumer I only approach it from the consumer viewpoint.

 

[TiQuinn]

Just so. It baffles me sometimes when people insist customers not see things from a customer standpoint.

I should say that I don't blame them for wanting to make money on a new revision.

 

[Emiricol]

Most of this seems pretty moot to me. No one has to use 3.5. Heck, people are still playing 1e and 2e. Those who have groups that want to go 3.5, but don't want to shell out the money for new books, can just use the conversion guide and the revised SRD. I have a feeling that groups that go 3.5 will have *someone* who doesn't mind springing for the new book or who is buying it regardless, and groups that don't will just keep playing 3.0.

My books are starting to die from overuse anyway, so I'll just pick up the 3.5 books instead of another set of 3.0 books.

Anyway, Monte was misquoted. Half a quote to support an argument but ignoring the half that doesn't fit that argument... That's dishonest in a way...

 

[Psion]

I should say that I[\B] don't blame them for wanting to make money on a new revision.

Neither do I, and I have pointed this out to people who try to read into WotC some evil motives. It's not an evil moneymaking scheme. It's an everyday moneymaking scheme.

At the same time, it is Wizard's job to sell me a product I will like. It is not above scrutiny.