Monte Cook's Beyond the veil - WTF? (spoiler)

[Shadeus]

Well, I would definitely suggest removing the ability score draining. But if you used it already, that's kind of limb solution. Reduce its number of hit points. Reduce its attack bonus so it doesn't hit as often.

Your players may consider focusing on the limitations his undead state brings him. (I haven't played or DMed the adventure, so I'm assuming it uses the ghost template.) For example, searing light does 10d6 points of damage now against it, no save. Sure you have to make a ranged touch, but dragon touch ACs are not tough. Combine that with a haste spell and its 20d6 a round.

The players could put a wall of force or a wall of stone over the acid pool to give them some firm ground to fight on. Or lure it out of the pool in some fashion (if that's possible).

Any of the elemental resistance spells could be userful against the acid as well. Or you could tone down the acid damage the pool does.

I tend to think of solutions as a player rather than a DM, so maybe that's not what you are looking for.

 

[teitan]

Re: Re: Monte Cook's Beyond the veil - WTF? (spoiler)

Players in my campaign would consider that downright generous...

You aren't the only one Morrus. I recently had to have Epic Level Meepo balance out the parties magical supplies with the DMG suggested limits and even bonused it a bit because I realized they had maybe 2 plus 1 weapons combined and not much else. 6th Level characters.

Jason

 

[Pielorinho]

A bunch of great ideas, Shadeus! Especially searing light: I'd not thought of that spell. It's got SR 18; the level 10 casters will only break through the SR 65% of the time, meaning that they'll either be very lucky or very unlucky.

I'm thinking reducing its attack bonus might be the best thing to do -- and I might rule that its ability-draining-touch doesn't work in the ethereal plane. I may also redesign the final arena so that the PCs have a little more maneuvering room: if they can force the dragon to move and attack each round, it'll make it much less dangerous (an AoO and one attack, rather than 5 attacks, each round).

Thanks for the advice!
Daniel

 

[Shadeus]

A bunch of great ideas, Shadeus! Especially searing light: I'd not thought of that spell. It's got SR 18; the level 10 casters will only break through the SR 65% of the time, meaning that they'll either be very lucky or very unlucky.

I'm thinking reducing its attack bonus might be the best thing to do -- and I might rule that its ability-draining-touch doesn't work in the ethereal plane. I may also redesign the final arena so that the PCs have a little more maneuvering room: if they can force the dragon to move and attack each round, it'll make it much less dangerous (an AoO and one attack, rather than 5 attacks, each round).

Thanks for the advice!
Daniel

No Problem. As for the SR, think of it this way: its better than the 50% noncorpreal miss chance they normally should get against a ghost.

Really, if the party is given a chance to prepare for the assault, they should be able to take him out. The rogue won't do squat because its immune to sneak attacks. The mage will be limited because of its SR and (I'm assuming) awesome saves...although magic missiles always are nice. The cleric should be the savior against this thing.

Another nasty trick would be to use consecrate.

From the SRD:
This spell blesses an area with positive energy. All Charisma checks made to turn undead within this area gain a +3 sacred bonus. Undead entering this area suffer minor disruption, giving them a –1 sacred penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. Undead cannot be created within or summoned into a consecrated area.

How cool would it be if the cleric turned it? Then the party just beats it to death as the cleric stands there leaving it cowered. Worst case, it has -1 to all attack and damage rolls AND there is no save AND (most importantly) consecrate ignores spell resistance.

I don't know its hit die...and ghosts usually get +4 turn resistance. But maybe with an amulet of undead turning and/or heightened turning, he/she may have a shot in hell.

 

[Pielorinho]

Another nasty trick would be to use consecrate.

How cool would it be if the cleric turned it?

On the one hand, the cleric has the sun domain, so if she turned it, there'd be a little pile of smoking ashes where the ghost once floated.

On the other hand, it's the ghost of an adult black dragon, and so has 19 HD. Combine that with turn resistance, and the cleric doesn't have a shot in hell.

Still, consecrate would be a great choice. In fact, I'm guessing the cleric's player is at home perusing spellbooks looking for good tactics right now. So maybe I'm just worrying too much.

Daniel

 

[Shadeus]

On the other hand, it's the ghost of an adult black dragon, and so has 19 HD. Combine that with turn resistance, and the cleric doesn't have a shot in hell.
Daniel

Uhh. turn check of a level 10 against HD 23? Umm, no. Even with a 20. Even with 2 20s.

 

[Avatar of the North]

check sultan's of smack for the undead turning beast. At 11th level it can destroy in one shot a 27HD undead

 

[Pielorinho]

check sultan's of smack for the undead turning beast. At 11th level it can destroy in one shot a 27HD undead

Cool. Do you have a link to this, by any chance? I'd love to see it, but am not sure where to find it.

In any case, the cleric in the party is sadly not even a first lieutenant of smack, much less a sultan of same.

Daniel

 

[Shadeus]

From the Sultan's of Smack thread:

Brother Joachim "Liches are my Bitches" Smackdown
Originally posted by Carpe DM

Editor’s Note: I can’t post the original post, and the subsequent fixes, so I’ll just post the closest version to a corrected maximized version. Please see the original post for detailed analysis.

Using your 11th Level example, we have: Clr 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 5

TURNING CHECK:

+3 (consecrate. +6 if you use the shrine / haversack trick)
+10 (heighten--notice I'm not using the whole bit, just enough to get +19)
+6 (charisma)
+2 (glory)
-2 (empower)
---
+19 to turn check. This guarantees a +4.

Then we calculate effective level.

EFFECTIVE LEVEL:

+4 (turning check result)
+2 (sacred armor)
+2 (sacred shield)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+4 (rod of authority)
+11 (level)
---
27, effective level. So, the smack will destroy anything of 27th level or less.

Finally, we do turning damage. Effective level does NOT plug into turning damage, but cleric / turning prestige class levels do. And since those magic items which added to effective level also add to damage, we count them again. Note that the turning check bonus to effective level DOESN'T seem to carry across. It simply says to add your level, not your effective level.

+2 (Sacred armor)
+2 (Sacred shield)
+4 (rod of authority)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+11 (level)
+6 (charisma: I know you used +9; this is adjustable)
-10 (heighten)
+2d6 (base)
+2d6 (empower)
+1d6 (glory)
---
5d6 + 19, for an average of 19+ 17.5 = 36.5.

Note that this framework would only be used if the cleric were trying to wipe out a very high level monster (27 hit dice) and didn't care about damage.

If we were going after our average 11th level monster, you'd drop the heighten turning, and go for the gusto on the turning damage. In that case you'd do 5d6 + 29= 17.5 + 29 = 46.5 turning damage of hit dice.

best,

Carpe


__________________

 

[Shadeus]

There's also a ring of turning in the R&R II that I think adds 2 to your effective turning level and an additional +1d6 turn damage.

If I had to guess, your party's cleric doesn't have that kind of firepower behind him.