Monte Cooks WoD is for 3.5

[painandgreed]

It'll be interesting to see how he does it and what he comes up with. I've been working on WoD type vampires for my homebrew D&D world. I was going with a template gained when turned into a vampire and then a choice of taking levels in a vampire PrC and feat chains of the typical discipline powers. I don't think that LA would have to be all that bad as vamps gain lots of disadvantages: no daylight activity, rotschreck, frenzy, blood addiction, and probably some others. This could also depend on what advantages you give them or make them pick up later. Could a neonate automatically blood bond or ghouls somebody or would it require a Knowledge (blood lore) or even a feat to do. Just by requiring an extra feat of "Basic Vampire Powers" would tame down their power a bit and not be beyond various monster classes presented in Savage Species.

 

[Ipissimus]

Yeah, but not playable by any stretch of the imagination in one system and wandering around in a world I can't force myself to care about in the other.

By any stretch of the imagination? I beg to differ. Fang and Fury stretched the imagination pretty conclusively. If everyone has the Vampire/Werewolf/whatever template, who cares about experience point penalties? Everyone's in the same boat. If you're using the Racial Character Classes, just use d20 Modern and allow them to multiclass freely.

On the second point... I have to ask, if you can't force yourself to care about the WoD world, why would you care about the same world using d20 mechanics? Ok, ok, so all you want is the crunch. -shrugs- personally, I don't see what's so 'unplayable' about what we've already got without shelling out more money.

Has that happened to anyone? Big or small?

Honestly, I don't know. Would you like to be the first to find out? Not me and not quite a few other people. Whether it has happened or not, the possibility is there and you are taking a risk, after all the d20 license was introduced to stop just that sort of abuse of WOTC's intellectual property. TSR was plagued by products that were 'for use with the DnD system'. If you don't enforce your licenses, why have them?

White Wolf can afford to take the risk and WOTC has nothing to gain getting into a nasty legal battle with one of its distant competitors.


It occurs to me that I'd have no problems with this if it were entitled 'Monte Cook's Supernatural Horrors' or some such, I cartainly don't have any objections over Arcana Unearthed. d20 Modern could certainly use a boost and I'd be interested in his take on the genre. Monte Cook's World of Darkness, however, makes me think 'sheesh, let's chew over some old ground again'. A clean sweep would be much better, no leftover baggage.

 

[Set]

I don't think that LA would have to be all that bad as vamps gain lots of disadvantages: no daylight activity, rotschreck, frenzy, blood addiction, and probably some others. This could also depend on what advantages you give them or make them pick up later.

Word of Darkness style vampires aren't inherently any stronger, faster, etc. than humans, and, as you state, have a ton of weaknesses as well.

In Masquerade rules, there was some attribute advantage, but they toned that down pretty severely in Requiem and the average human (or, as in the demo games, *dog*) can pretty much own a beginning vampire.

What a WoD style vampire template would mostly do is transform lethal damage from piercing into non-lethal damage, and to heal damage via an expenditure of precious blood, confer some immunities (suffocation), add a bunch of weaknesses (fire, sunlight, fear, frenzy, torpor) and open up the *option* of picking up various supernatural feats, or taking levels in the 'vampire' monster class, that would grant additional powers, such as a charming gaze, or supernatural stealth, or superhuman strength. The further up the 'monster feat' trees one goes, the better one's charming gaze gets, at the expense of not being able to spend those feats on super-strength, or turning into bats.

Despite the D&Dism of undead not having a Con score, WoD vampires definitely have some sort of supernatural metabolism going on, being able to get diseases, be poisoned, suffer environmental harm from extremes of heat, cold and pressure, and, obviously, starve from lack of blood. Not having a Con score would be somewhat counter to the nature of the setting.

 

[EditorBFG]

By any stretch of the imagination? I beg to differ. Fang and Fury stretched the imagination pretty conclusively.

To each his own. Fang & Fury was not what i was hoping for. Big Green Ronin fan, but not that particular book.

If everyone has the Vampire/Werewolf/whatever template, who cares about experience point penalties? Everyone's in the same boat. If you're using the Racial Character Classes, just use d20 Modern and allow them to multiclass freely.

I just don't think the current d20 versions are all that interesting, yet alone playable. I look forward to someone rebuilding them from the ground up-- that's part of what I'm hoping for in this product.

On the second point... I have to ask, if you can't force yourself to care about the WoD world, why would you care about the same world using d20 mechanics?

I can't get into the new WoD, but the old one was a world I played in for years. I was running old WoD as recently as 2004, but the campaign bogged down in bad mechanics.

It occurs to me that I'd have no problems with this if it were entitled 'Monte Cook's Supernatural Horrors' or some such, I cartainly don't have any objections over Arcana Unearthed. d20 Modern could certainly use a boost and I'd be interested in his take on the genre. Monte Cook's World of Darkness, however, makes me think 'sheesh, let's chew over some old ground again'. A clean sweep would be much better, no leftover baggage.

This last bit strikes me as just the same-old knee-jerk Internet naysaying, but as a fellow fan of Modern I do hope the material is easy to convert.

 

[Maggan]

Honestly, I don't know. Would you like to be the first to find out?

Sure, why not? At least then I could talk with complete authority on the subject.

Until it happens, it hasn't happened.

/M

 

[rgard]

The Morrow Project

Yep, and Phoenix Command.

 

[EditorBFG]

Yep, and Phoenix Command.

Ah, yes, Phoenix Command. One of those ultra-simple, narrativist systems, right?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Yes, and technically llegal. Try pulling that trick as a small publisher and watch the lawyers descend to pick at your carcass.

you must be thinking of tsr. It does not mention wotc, d&d or d20 system

technically its not illegal because its a technicality. It does not directly name wtc, d&d or d20 system. they could mean the revised 3.5 open gaming license for all we know. really going after a small publisher like that even though they haven't broken the ogl agreement would be a nightmare for wtc. watch the fans descend and pick at the carcass of wotc.

 

[Psion]

Sorry, I can't agree with you here.

Oh well.

Vampires? Done. Werewolves? Done.

As I have said, done and done in a manner acceptable for playable PCs are two different things.

However, nWoD encourages and supports roleplaying with the Humanity/Vice/Virtue and descriptive combat mechanics while DnD largely ignores roleplaying mechanics.

Some of us happen to feel that "roleplaying mechanics" are intrusive and let players do lip service to roleplaying.

Though WoD is not as bad as some, I still don't find it especially good either. Under the much vaunted virtue/vice pairing, a poor role player can (and in my actual experience, does) typically go for the all too convenient "I'm a vampire sex fiend".

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

As for Green Ronin's vampire book being weak sauce, I must admit that my first reaction was that you've never actually used it.

You are quite right. I think I have a pretty good judgment of what is going to work in my game and what will not, and I found Fang & Fury to be not of the same caliber as other books in the series. It doesn't so much add any depth to vampires and parse out the same old D&D vampire over several small meals. Overall, weak and uninteresting, not comparing to the depth that WoD applies to vampires at all.

Yes, and technically illegal. Try pulling that trick as a small publisher and watch the lawyers descend to pick at your carcass.

White Wolf is not a small company among gaming companies. They doubtless retain an IP lawyer, and have used this technique before. If there were legal troubles, they would have been notified and desisted by now.

So I'll trust that over internet armchair lawyering.

 

[rgard]

Ah, yes, Phoenix Command. One of those ultra-simple, narrativist systems, right?

Too funny!!! You could probably call it elegant as well.

All that said, it was great when LEG released the Dinosaurs supplement right about the time Jurassic Park was coming out.

Thanks,
Rich