Monte on covers

Ghostwind said:
If you, as a gamer, are browsing the shelves looking for something to buy, you will likely be more inclined to pick up a book with an attractive cover versus one in a plain brown wrapper (publisher's name not withstanding).
as far as impulse buys go, my FLGS has all its books spine out, so you don't even see the cover until you've picked it up. thus, i tend to choose books more on title, author, or publisher than cover, since those are the things i can see on the spine.

Wolffenjugend said:
Think about it: an average joe goes into a book store and has two books he knows nothing about to choose from. He can pick the one with a cool picture on the front or the other that has no cover or a really bad one.
you're assuming Joe doesn't actually open up either book and try reading them. i think that happens more often with regular novels than gaming books. i've never seen a gamer at a store buy a book without flipping through it first (unless he already knew he wanted it).
 

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And the single-character poses on the front of Dragon Magazine are absolutely horrendous. I have been very disappointed it that mag's covers for a few years now. Awful.
I wouldn't be quite that negative, but I do agree that it's a step backward. For instance, the Dungeon issue with the demonic harpy on the cover. The full picture is inside, and tells a story, but they've done a closeup on the harpy on the cover...which removes the context and just looks kind of ugly and arbitrary. I think I know why this approach has been taken; with the text splattered all over the covers these days for marketing purposes, there's no room for a scene, only a character. Likewise, in the core books, with such severe page restrictions, squeezing in the odd character is easier than presenting a scene.
 
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Just my 2 cents worth here, I agree with those that are of the opinion that WOTC does the "faux book cover" thing right, but most others are rubbish. I have actually passed on even LOOKING at a book with one of those sloppy photoshopped covers. It might be a shame, but it's a reality. I don't want litter on my bookshelves, I want books, and to me that includes the covers being nice to look at.
 

I guess I don't get it. Disturbing trend...? I'm not sure I understand exactly what Monte means by that statement. I see some small semblance of a trend with a few publishers and a faux-book cover style, and I understand what he is saying in the column, but I am not sure why and on what basis he finds it "disturbing" that some are using one style of cover, or variations of it, while others are using other styles of covers. There have been game books as far back as I can remeber (pre-RPG, early to mid-seventies) that have been mocked up to appear as etched leather (or similar styles like "official documents or dossiers"), and its only with the advancements in computer graphics that it has become a bit more prolific. I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the core books having that style as the primary influence, though admittedly some. Sometimes a good idea is just a good idea, regardless of who happens to take it to its natural conclusion slightly earlier than another.

Monte suggests a couple of reasons why some folks are going that route (economics and suggestive-compatiblity), but he seems to suggest that those reasons are less-than-ideal, perhaps even poorly chosen. Given the great number of products on the market, it is certainly not at all an epidemic to use faux-book covers. Is it really a problem for customers to have a wide array of choices that includes that particular style? Would it be better if all publishers were to follow a trend to avoid the use of faux-book covers?

Personally, I prefer covers to have illustrations with a feeling of action about them, although the faux-book look for the core books seems quite appropriate to me since they were encouraging a slew of other publishers to build up the supplemental library, as it were. I think that the choice of the faux-book style for the core books was a wise and judicious choice on the part of WotC marketing as it allows for supplementary publishers' choices to be less likely to clash thematically with the books they are supposedly supporting. With the number of fans that already don't stray beyond the books published by WotC, I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be for fledgling publishers if the the core book covers were riddled with images of those creatures that WotC has deemed off-limits, such as beholders or mindflayers.

Monte's opinion does bear some weight on the grapevine with the player populace, so I suppose his voicing of it might influence some segment of the marketplace to turn their nose up at covers that don't meet with his personal tastes or approval but I sometimes wonder how aware he is of his influence when he writes his columns on his publishing website and, for that matter, when he writes reviews. I guess if Monte's point is too correlate his opinion of acceptable style with player retention and new player recruitment (as he seems to suggest is, or used to be, his goal to promote), then some numbers need to be examined to see if his feelings about the trend are truly an indicator of how that trend is manifesting itself. How many books are on the market that utilize this supposed trend and what are the sales numbers of those that do, versus those that do not? Sales numbers would seem to be the only true indicator of which covers might be drawing in new players or appealing to those already in the fold. If there were identical core books to those on the market also available that had non-faux-book covers (but otherwise the same material within), we might have a real baseline on which to draw some conclusions, but barring that we really can only try to determine if the core book sales were a successful effort...and to further determine if sales goals are being met by other publishers that utilize the faux-book style covers.

Naturally, one could argue (as some here are doing) that the material behind the cover has as much or more to do with those numbers, but that would, of course, be an alternate, personal preference, simply more conjecture, and seemingly no more valid than the opposing argument in actual point of fact without numbers weighted in that direction. At some point, IMO, there is just no getting around the actual numbers and you have to put at least some trust in the them...or, I suppose, do what you can to change the numbers with whatever influence you can bring to bear. I wish I had some, or he had some and shared them to validate his claims.

From my limited perspective, the industry still seems to be healthier than it has ever been in the past, and gamers seem to have a vast array of products (with varying cover styles) from which to choose, so I am not quite sure what it is that has him so "disturbed" that he feels the need to label one style or another as good or bad in his high-profile column. Maybe he'll pop by here and explain his motivation for the column and if he has any numbers to show why others should, perhaps, feel "disturbed" as well. I, for one, need a bit more than what he has given to feel that it justifies labeling other publishers' choices in such a way, and I'll need quite a bit more to get to a "disturbed" level of concern.

Maybe that's just me...
 

MEG Hal said:
While I love the Fall of Man cover also (own the original), to discount the quality of a book by its cover is a shame, I have some older books in my collection (book collection, not RPG books) that are plain leather covers and to have passed on them would have been a crime...

Our books in the Player's Advantage line are suppose to compliment the core books as well as some of our fellow "plain cover" series by other companies (Mongoose's Quint line as an example), so our idea was make it look more exciting then those but familiar so you understand they compliment each other...

Charles Plemons III is writing that series and has numerous credits to his name and is a fact maniac, so please give books with faux covers a second look, they may surprise you.
Actually that's the exact point that folks are making. If it doesn't draw their eye they WON'T give it a second chance. Personally I was already very interested in say Arcana Unearthed, but the fact that Mark Zug did a wonderful bit of cover art for it was justa plus. The book looks amazing. As far as Fall of Man goes, I have that as my desktop now on my computer heh. Seattle I'm assuming with that Space Needle in the background.

I own the 20th anniversary CoC which is a *plain* green leather with just an elder sign..and the title on the side. This book is rather plain on the outside all things considered, but it did a wonderful job of looking like something your investigator would be digging thru for answers.

We're not doubting the quality of your books (well most of us anyway), but there are definitely times that the cover's looks really do go a long way. Heck there's a lot of old FR supplements that all told aren't that great but they had fantastic cover art....and thus sold copies.

Hagen
 

Just to throw my two copper peices in.

I don't have a prefence either way. In fact I really don't care, its the content the affects my desicision to buy a book, not the artwork. The only thing the cover can do is get me to take a look at the book, but for that the picture style is better.
 

MEG Hal said:
I agree on content, and even though you would not buy it I am glad the cover for Fall of Man shows you with an image what the books theme is (to an extent) ;)

Fall of Man is a post apocolyptic world were fantasy meets 2050 AD or so... it is being playtested as we speak.

You mean like Thundarr the Barbarian?
 

Morpheus said:
You mean like Thundarr the Barbarian?
OOKLA! ARIEL!! Ho-OOOOOOO!!!!

I'd rather all books have leather covers, because judging from my collection of pre-20th century books those hold up pretty darn good. I've got some that were in a fire and except for some turning on the edges of the paper and a bit of um..crispness to the spine, they're still fine after more than 120 years. Besides, leather smells better. It smells like...victory. :heh:
 

I pretty much agree with monte. The posing indiviudals on covers or the fake book covers have gone way beyond their needed time and need more innovation.
 

I pretty much agree with monte. The posing indiviudals on covers or the fake book covers have gone way beyond their needed time and need more innovation.
 

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