[Monte Rant] Designers who think they're above roleplay

[Kichwas]

An interesting rant right now from Monte:
http://www.montecook.com/anrant.html

If it's not about "Shut up and Play" then by the time you saw this he moved it to his archives.

I have to wonder if this accounts for many of the rules flaws and other quality issues we see from some of the larger houses.

I trust the little guys more lately because I know they're doing it as a labor of love. The production values may suck, the design and art may suck. But the ideas are usually better.

Of course, at the end he sort of slams those little guys. Not as a whole; but suggesting that a lot of them are not doing what they should be doing.

 

[SSS-Druid]

I have to admit, I was rather surprised to learn of this particular phenomenon.

By the same token, however, I'm pretty sequestered. I'm still new to the industry and have yet to really socialize with a lot of other industry folks.

I know for myself, I'm involved in no less than four games right now, two of which are Scarred Lands games, Mightier Than the Sword, which is set in Lokil and The Serpent Amphora Cycle, which is the playtest group for the Cycle that will be seeing publication this year.

I am also due to be starting up another, The Seventh Gate, a Hollowfaust game, once my roommate situation is all steady again. I hate it when campaigns end because people move; but, by the same token, it allows me start afresh, too.

 

[Black Omega]

I have to wonder if this accounts for many of the rules flaws and other quality issues we see from some of the larger houses.

It's a good question. I'm not too shocked by the rant. I vaguely wonder how many people designing games think the people who play RPG's are lifeless losers, really.

I trust the little guys more lately because I know they're doing it as a labor of love. The production values may suck, the design and art may suck. But the ideas are usually better.

Eh. Sometimes yes. Certainly Quint Fighter is better than S&F. But smaller presses have their share of disappointments. Justr because someone loves what they do doesn't mean they come up with more good, balanced ideas. I've seen cases where a product could have used the input of someone more objective.

 

[Kichwas]

True smaller press is no gaurantee.

I see it like this...

If quality is on a 1-10 scale, the small press is rolling 1d10. The big guys are rolling 3d3-1.

 

[DungeonKeeperUK]

If quality is on a 1-10 scale, the small press is rolling 1d10. The big guys are rolling 3d3-1.

Nice way of looking at it..

 

[Dinkeldog]

Nice way of looking at it, while remaining elitist, condescending, and generally rude. I would have to wholly disagree.

You can say that the bigger houses are incapable of achieving greatness, but the best individual products I've seen came from WotC.

 

[Kichwas]

I guess I'm having trouble figureing out where I was elitist, condescending, or generally rude.


Before anybody tries to draw any other conclusions: Monte's rant is not my rant. My rant is not his rant. Same for our opinions on this. And I would say I did draw a different conclusion from his rant than he does. In fact I'm not sure just what conflusion he is drawing.

I thought it an interesting rant though and so posted it.

It's a bit annoying that there are still certain people around here that require me to explain every word I post; rather than giving it the same consideration they give others, but whatever...

 

[Psion]

I have to admit, I was rather surprised to learn of this particular phenomenon.

Unfortunately I'm not... I've already heard tales and seen signs, especially where the d20 phenomenon is concerned. There are too many people for whom making a d20 game is purely for the cash appeal, and they stick with their own game for their own purposes (of course, that may not be precisely what Monte was talking about, as he seems to be speaking of designers who don't game at all.) I blame DLOM on that phenomenon.

See, I constantly hear whining about the game or various specific products (more at RPGnet than here) that speculate on what will happen in the game that I have never seen crop up in a game. Especially when it comes to speculating how people will behave or react, these speculations are especially ill informed. If you never play the game, how can you know the difference?

 

[Psion]

True smaller press is no gaurantee.

I see it like this...

If quality is on a 1-10 scale, the small press is rolling 1d10. The big guys are rolling 3d3-1.

Oh? And who is a "big guy" to you? WotC? Or WotC plus the 3 or 4 biggest d20 publishers? Or WotC and teh 3 or 4 biggest publishers period.

Just in case you are wondering, I really don't agree. I really think that the biggest 3 or 4 d20 publishers do much better than the small press, simply due to the fact that the small press can't afford as much QA or playtesting, and/or because the small press tends to be a vanity press.

 

[WizarDru]

Just in case you are wondering, I really don't agree. I really think that the biggest 3 or 4 d20 publishers do much better than the small press, simply due to the fact that the small press can't afford as much QA or playtesting, and/or because the small press tends to be a vanity press.

I tend to agree with Alan and dinkeldog on this. WOTC has had some mis-steps (such as S&F), but in general, the quality of their material far outstrips everyone else's contributions. WOTC tends to learn from their mistakes, and I've only really been disappointed in two releases of theirs in the last two years. I think several of the d20 publishers release generally good material (Kenzerco, S&S, Fiery Dragon, Malhavoc, for example). However, I think many of the d20 publishers release subpar material, such as AEG and Mongoose, whose name never seems to be associated with the term 'splatbook' the way that WOTC does, despite being more deserving, IMHO.

Many of the smaller releases are vanity press, as Alan points out, and while that indicates emotional involvement, it doesn't necessarily indicate quality. WOTC is generally held to a higher standard, IMHO, and usually meets it. The worst WOTC release still is better than some of the 'best efforts' by some companies.

That said, there are also some companies that are releasing material of equal or superior quality to WOTC, but not in great volume or necessarily consistency. YMMV.