[Monte Rant] Designers who think they're above roleplay

[SoulsFury]

True smaller press is no gaurantee.

I see it like this...

If quality is on a 1-10 scale, the small press is rolling 1d10. The big guys are rolling 3d3-1.

I disagree with this too. In my opinion, there are two main big guys in the industry; WotC and SSS. Both are quite capable of putting out '10s' (in most peoples opinion). It is more like, 3d3+1 compared to 1d10. WotC has put out some fantastic products, weather you play in the realms or not, the FRCS is fantastic and has more information crammed in than any book I can think of. I enjoy the class books, but I know some don't and consider them unbalanced. The core books were very well written but could have been edited better. Their adventures are top notch IMO. Like wise, SSS has put out some great 'core' books. The content in Relics and Rituals is easily used for other settings besides Scarred Lands. The little guys are good but gotta love the big ones too. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have a game.

Nik

 

[Wicht]

Actually I think it is insulting to publishers to suggest that the quality of their work is random. Considering they work very hard (or so I would imagine) to turn out what they do. Quality IMO is more a matter of the amount of 1) creativity (the only remotely random factor) 2)attention paid to detail and 3) resources available.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

I don't think the point was that the quality of a given publisher is random. Just that if you pick out a random small publisher product, the distribution is different than for WoTC, etc...

Though I also don't agree with the conclusion. I don't think I have seen any 3rd party products that compare with the very best of WoTC's stuff. It is just that bad WoTC stuff fails to live up to hype and then is remembered as a failure. Bad 3rd party stuff is written off and quickly forgotten.

 

[Archer]

I think the quality of any given publisher is random (at least to an outside observer). AEG, SSS, Ambient and others have produced products that range from good or superb to absolutely abysmal. I don't know any publisher that has produced 5 or more products with none of them being poor. This is publishers mind you, particular authors can always produce a quality product.

The d10 for independent publishers and 2d4+1 for the big companies is IMO a very accurate description of the body of d20 products out there. Its like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get unless you look inside the actual product.

 

[Holy Bovine]

It is just that bad WoTC stuff fails to live up to hype and then is remembered as a failure. Bad 3rd party stuff is written off and quickly forgotten.

You hit the nail on the head with that one Axio Unicorn. How many threads have we seen (and still see even now) about how "terrible" Sword & Fist was (I personally don't agree with that but that's a whole new thread ) but truly crappy 3rd party stuff is labelled as such and drops into oblivion very quickly.

How many threads have you seen about the Creature Collection (great ideas bad game mechanics) in the last 6 months? One? Yet it is on the top ten worst rated supplements on the reviews board in this very site! Sword & Fist is brought up at least once a week (it seems to me - I may be exaggerating here but I really don't think so) despite being out for over a year.

Now I'm really not trying to pick on anyone's opinion or step on toes but the best supplements have come from the bigger publishers - WotC has the core books, FRCS, Manual of the Planes, Masters of the Wild (and I could go on), S&SS has Relics & Rituals, Creature Collection 2, Mithral Citybook, Hallowfaust Citybook etc.. I really can't find a 'small press' publisher that can match these in originality, production values & creativity - but if you know of one please let me know - I'd love to try them out

 

[Tsyr]

Holy Bovine: FFG

 

[Wicht]

I think the quality of any given publisher is random (at least to an outside observer).

Ok this seems a bit like semantics to me. It is like arguing that the weather is random. The weather only appears random but in fact follows a very definite set of (albeit complex) laws. Given enough information one can reasonably predict the weather.

Thus if your methodology is to just pick up a game book, look at it, and then examine another one, well then the quality will appear random to you as well. But in fact there are a number of set variables that an intelligent observer can use to predict the quality of any given book before the book is actually read.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Holy Bovine: FFG

What does FFG stand for? And anything in particular? (I love moster books and books on spells and magic items - campaign specific stuff is just fine as long as the core ideas are good).

Thanks

 

[Tsyr]

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/

They aren't exactly a SMALL company, but they aren't exactly WotC or WhiteWolf, either.

 

[EOL]

What surprises me the most about this is that you would think that it would have to be about love rather than money. I mean I can see being a doctor for the money rather than enjoyment or a lawyer or an accountant, but a D20 Publisher? Is there huge amounts of money available out there that I'm missing, that draws greedy soulless people in?